Startups require a deft touch when it comes to PR. After all, they have to get their name out to start building their brand – and they may be on a tighter budget. My guest Kathy Casciani, principal of Azul PR + Communications and an expert at helping emerging businesses get started with PR, talks with me about what startups need to do to launch a successful public relations program.
Show summary:
In this episode of PR Explored, host Michelle Garrett, a PR consultant and writer, interviews Kathy Kashani, the principal of Azul Communications, about the nuances of public relations for startups.
Kathy discusses her journey from a long-time PR agency veteran to an independent PR consultant, focusing on consumer goods and B2C brands, especially startups. The conversation centers around defining a startup, understanding the distinct needs of startups versus established companies, and the foundational steps necessary for effective PR.
They delve into the importance of having clear business goals, identifying the right time to start PR, and how startups can build foundational elements like a solid website and social media presence before engaging in PR activities.
Kathy also highlights common mistakes startups make, such as not having a clear plan or budget, and the need for ongoing, rather than one-off, PR efforts. The discussion also covers how startups can attract investors through media visibility and the evolving nature of PR resources, including the benefits of hiring consultants or smaller agencies over large firms.
The episode wraps up with practical advice on how startups can evaluate and select the right PR help, emphasizing the importance of honest communication and setting clear goals.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
02:32 Defining Startups and Their Unique PR Needs
04:22 Laying the Foundation for PR Success
08:13 Evaluating PR Readiness and Setting Expectations
10:50 When is it Too Early for PR?
19:53 Milestones and Inflection Points for PR
22:08 How PR Can Help Attract Investors
23:33 The Importance of Media Coverage for Startups
24:33 Challenges and Opportunities in Media Coverage
26:27 Common Mistakes Startups Make in PR
31:52 The Value of Ongoing PR Efforts
34:11 Budget Considerations for PR
39:26 Choosing the Right PR Help
43:48 The Rewards of Working with Startups
46:04 Final Thoughts
Show notes:
Follow Kathy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathycasciani/
Kathy’s site: https://azulcommunications.com
Full transcript:
Michelle: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of PR Explored. This is a video podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations. I’m your host, Michelle Garrett. I’m a PR consultant and writer. And today I have a very special friend and guest with me, Kathy. Kashi, Kashani. Kashani.
Kathy: I know it’s a mouthful.
Michelle: And Kathy is, I’m going to have, I’m going to ask you to tell us a little bit about yourself, but you are the principal of Azul Communications, right? And we’re going to be talking about PR for startups, but as everybody kind of gathers and gets settled, I’d love for you to tell us a little bit about you and your work and just anything that’s happening in your.
PR world right now.
Kathy: Sure. Thank you so much for having me. It’s always great to [00:01:00] chat with you either on screen or just in general. Yeah, so I am a long time PR agency veteran. I spent many years at agencies, big and small, and about three years ago decided to Go the path of becoming an independent solo P.
R. Consultant. I’d say the bread and butter of my experience is consumer goods and just B to C brands. A lot of them, bigger household names. Although these days I am working a lot more with startups. So I’m excited to talk about this today. But mainly startups that and service based businesses, I would say that do have more of a baby B to C focus.
So I hope that explains it.
Michelle: No, that’s great. I always like people to tell us in their own words what they do, because if I just read a bio, it’s people can go to LinkedIn to follow you and read all about you, which I just put the link into the comments and also your website, I put that in there too.
And Kathy shares great insight on LinkedIn and you should definitely follow her there [00:02:00] and connect if you are so inclined. So startups I worked in startups, startup PR for quite a while being out in the bay area before I came back to my Midwest roots. I did a lot of startup PR and it was always interesting, but hectic.
Let’s put it that way. Very chaotic and just, things would turn on a dime and you were expected to also pivot and turn and it’s, it can be, it’s, yeah. It’s a lot.
Kathy: Not for the faint of heart. Is that what you’re saying? Yes.
Michelle: So and they’re neat, startups needs differ, from those of more established companies and brands and so I think that this is something that comes up as far as what first of all, let’s Define what we mean when we’re talking about a startup.
What are we really talking about?
Kathy: Yeah. And actually I’m glad you asked that because, I think that maybe the traditional definition of a startup is, a newly formed company that’s bringing a new product or service [00:03:00] to the market. Usually people think of startups as having a tech, it’s a tech company that’s looking to raise capital, looking for investment and looking to scale.
But I think for the purposes of the day, some of the things I’m going to talk about is, maybe focus on that newly formed company piece. Any company that’s just maybe just getting started and is in their earlier stages of growth and development. I think some of the, thoughts here will apply whether you are in the tech space and looking for investment or whether you’re just a smaller business that’s just getting started.
Michelle: Yeah, I think a lot of the advice is similar, but it’s different because I work a lot with smaller businesses. I wouldn’t call them startups because some of them are 50 years old or whatever, but it is different than working with a big company, a big corporation and what they need and what would really help them is different.
Yeah, like when they’re earlier
Kathy: in their journey and also just, they’re still learning how to. Manage all the moving parts of their business and a lot of times there’s pressure [00:04:00] to grow quickly. So yes, it can be a pretty crazy environment. So yeah, I know you’ve, you’re, you’ve been there.
Michelle: Yeah and we, when we were talking before, before. And we were just chatting. It’s it. I’ve moved away a little bit from what I would call startups, traditional startups, just because it is so it’s just challenging in a lot of ways. And so we are going to talk about some of those challenges and, obviously I think one thing we can say is, when you’re just getting your feet wet with PR and if you have, this could apply if you’re a startup or if you’ve just never done PR even, which some companies never have what are some things, what where should you really start?
What could, where could you start if you were just getting going?
Kathy: Sure. So I guess I think there’s a lot of things So that companies, new companies can do to really, even if they’re not ready to do PR, I think it’s thinking about like, how do you set yourself up for [00:05:00] PR success down the road and, prepare yourself so that you’ve got a good foundation when you’re ready to pull the trigger and invest your time and energy in PR.
So I think there’s a couple of things. I think first of all and this is really just good business advice, whether you’re going to do partner, but, define who you’re trying to reach, right? Have a really clear idea of. Your audience or the audiences that you want to reach if you are going to, again, invest your time in PR, I think a lot of companies don’t just have a clear picture of that, it may be a certain kind of customer.
And if so what is that customer? Where are they? Who are they? It may be employees. And I think there’s different audiences you can reach with PR. So I think you have to really think about who are we trying to reach? And then what’s my point of difference? Like, how are we special?
How are we different than our competitors? I think that’s another thing. Like everyone likes to think that, whatever they’re doing or whatever they’re selling is super unique, you, you’ve really got to think about, there’s going to be. Competitors in your space are people that [00:06:00] do something similar.
And so how are you doing things differently and how are you articulating that? . And, how does that kind of fit into your elevator pitch? What are you selling? What problem do you solve? Who do you help? Like really. Like nail that before you even think about going out and trying to, get on other, platforms and talk about that.
You’ve got to have that nailed. And then I just think like certain things like I, I’m a big believer that before you go into, Trying to get in, get on, get on media or, get onto podcasts and things like that. Think about your owned channels. So dial that in first is your website up today?
Have you, is that, have you really explored like what you could do on your website? Do you have a blog, have you fully filled out your social media profiles? Like I think
Michelle: do
Kathy: those things too. Like some of those things you control. And focus that on that first, talk to your own audience first before you try and get on third party platform.
Michelle: And the great thing about [00:07:00] that is when you have content on your blog, for example you can maybe leverage that in your PR efforts. You could pitch those as contribute articles, maybe with a little bit of zhuzhing or, there are things you could do with that and you work it into pitches.
There’s, that was one of the things I talked to someone who was You know, started a startup, started a company, and I really, I had to say it was a little bit too early, for actual PR, but one thing that, he could be doing is working on building up that own content.
Absolutely. I
Kathy: couldn’t agree with you more. And not only Should you be talking to your audience directly first and building up your content, but, when it does come time to pitch reporters, or, maybe you want to pitch on yourself being on a podcast, I think that those reporters.
Are going to look at your social media profiles. They’re gonna look at your website and they’re gonna try and get a sense of how far along you are in your business, like what you stand for, what you’re [00:08:00] selling. And so all of that should be pretty fleshed out before you try. . Get on those third party platforms.
Michelle: Yeah, so those are some kind of the musts that we would advise or that you would advise if you’re talking to us. And when you evaluate, okay, so when somebody gets in touch with you, I always feel like they’re evaluating you, but you’re also evaluating them as, far as how they would, how would we work with them?
And what do they bring to the table? I’m always like What do you, what are you bringing to the table? Do you have thought leadership? Do you have content? Do you have interesting stories that differentiate? Point of
Kathy: view, exactly. That’s showing up, on your blog, on your, on your LinkedIn profile.
And, are you, who you say you are, yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. I think too. The other thing too is just have a sense of what you want the outcomes to be too. Like I have some goals in mind. Like I always say don’t practice random acts of PR. We’ve all been in that position where it’s like someone comes to you and says, I want to be in the wall [00:09:00] street journal or whatever it is.
And. It’s why? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to achieve? And, really make sure that you’re aligned on that with, your, whether you have an internal PR person or, you’ve hired somebody and, but, make sure you, you have some clear goals in mind too.
Michelle: Yeah. Because when I was in Silicon Valley, starting PR consultant after having worked, for some tech companies out there The thing that always came up was, oh, we do want to be in the Wall Street Journal. Oh, we do want to be in TechCrunch. Everybody wants that. And it’s harder now than it was, and that was years ago.
So it’s even harder now than it was then. And back then it wasn’t easy. So it’s always what, why is that? Is that just a ego thing? Or is that, is there really, obviously there’s some cachet that comes with, having a story in the Wall Street Journal about your company.
However, is your audience spending time there? Or would it be just as powerful, just as helpful to be in a trade journal or, on a podcast or maybe in a newsletter?
Kathy: Local media outlet. If you’re selling to [00:10:00] a local audience. Yeah, 100%. You have to think those things through. You know what? Who are you trying to reach?
What do you want them to do or feel? And then where do you want to go?
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s great to have those conversations and I, hopefully again, like I hope if PR pros are listening that they are asking the questions and willing to have those conversations because if you don’t have them up front.
And you find out after you’re into it that you do have different expectations. It, it can go, it can be tough, it can be a rough ride.
Kathy: Yes, for sure, we’ve all been there.
Michelle: And I’m not saying it happens all the time, I’m sure like, yeah, we have, you want
Kathy: to be aligned on expectations. You definitely do and know why you’re doing something and not just spinning your wheels for no reason.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me put up my next question here, which is, are there situations when it’s too early for [00:11:00] PR?
Kathy: Absolutely. Yes. And hopefully you want to find, hopefully as a PR person, you’re going to be honest with him at that. If that’s the question being asked, I’d say a couple of things like, not always, but I think that, if you don’t have something to sell yet or a clear call to action, I think you may want to think about, Are we too early?
Because ideally if someone sees you or your product or your name, in an article or something, and what do you want them to do with that? If it’s months before your products being sold or before your services being offered, it just might not be as useful. So I would just say yeah, not always, but I think that’s something where you might want to pause and say, is it too early?
Okay. I think to our conversation earlier, Michelle, maybe your other marketing touch points aren’t quite dialed in yet. Like maybe your website’s not quite ready or, you don’t have your elevator pitch worked out yet. Yeah, maybe you’re just not really quite ready with your story yet.
So I think there’s that. Pre work that needs to be done. I think too [00:12:00] that really people sometimes miss out is, maybe you don’t have the right resources to put against it. And I think that could be, it could be financial, right? I think. You have to be careful if you’ve got limited dollars, you really have to think about based on your goals is PR the thing that’s gonna move the needle for you most or is it paid ads or, you just have to think about, what are the priorities right now, but it also could be human resources.
I think one thing we see a lot is, Startup hire somebody and then they just haven’t really thought about who internally is going to manage the person or agency or nobody’s available to ever talk to them or give them information. And that can be a really frustrating situation, right?
Like you just, you’re, you gotta be able to devote some time and resources to helping your agency or person be successful.
Michelle: Again, I think that is something you have to talk about because it’s you can’t just hire. Search for a PR provider, be it a consultant agency, whoever it might be, hire them, and then just send them off and be [00:13:00] like, okay, nothing’s happening, what’s going on, or you have to talk to them, you have to provide information, it’s a collaboration, it’s a partnership It’s really difficult to deliver when you’re just like in a vacuum like you have no, of course we all do research, we all, I don’t know.
It’s just different though when you’re trying to connect. And I’ve been in that situation and it’s, it’s just really difficult and it’s not really, for me, it’s not rewarding or fun when I, not to say, it’s our work is always fun, but it’s like you’re.
You’re just, it’s just a struggle, really.
Kathy: Yes, it is. And no one wants that. I, but I do think sometimes, you get someone, a lot of companies just feel like I’ll hire a PR person. I’m just going to send them off to do their job. And then the magic is going to happen. And that’s just not really.
We don’t go in the back like the Wiz from the Wizard of Oz and just work for magic and it happens like it’s a constant partnership, a [00:14:00] collaboration, your brainstorming together and, you’re feeding your PR person information and, work. So it’s just. They’re that, those resources have to be available for, I think, for it to really work.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. And I think when I was younger, newer to consulting I had worked in an agency, so I consulted with clients in that way to get that experience, but it is something you learn over time because I think, there are also times when you’re like, oh yeah, okay. Somebody wants to hire me.
Okay. I’m in, yeah. And you just say yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You don’t ask the questions and then you’re in there and you’re like, oh, this was, this is not, and maybe, maybe then you can have the conversation and get on the right track, but it’s much, I think it’s much more effective to do it ahead of time and really just understand, cause not everybody is a fit for every situation.
And it’d be better to know that than to be in that situation and have to, Yes. I think that’s definitely,
Kathy: definitely something you hear more from. Peer professionals that have been [00:15:00] in the business for a while because we’ve just all been in bad situations where expectations haven’t been managed or the right questions haven’t been asked up front.
And then, nobody wants that, you don’t want to disappointed client, you don’t want to have to go through the heartache. It feeling like a battle every day. So I think just, yes, if you want to ask a lot of questions up front. And by the way, if you are looking for a PR person or an agency, and they’re asking you a lot of questions that’s a good thing.
That’s what you want, right? You want to really make sure it’s the right time. It’s the right fit. You don’t want to hand your money to somebody that
Michelle: Yeah and I think we’ve all encountered in our work, companies that have tried to do PR and maybe it, it didn’t work out. And so then they have a bad taste in their mouth. And so I think the more questions you can ask, the more open dialogue You can have as you’re going through that process of selecting someone to work with the actual engagement is going to go a lot more smoothly than it is if you just, pick somebody and okay, [00:16:00] here’s the budget.
Here you go. It’s not. Yeah,
Kathy: Yes. And I just I think that’s 1 of the reasons I try and. I know you do so much of this, education up front is so key, right? You want people to go into a relationship and a PR engagement with eyes wide open and you want them to understand how it works, right?
There’s no, no reason not to talk a little bit more about how the sausage is made, right? You, cause it’s just that if you have an educated client, like it’s just. Yeah. It’s gonna go so much better.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I like it when they ask me questions. Now, sometimes the questions they ask I don’t feel are maybe the right questions.
Who do you know? That’s a question. That’s true. That is true. Do you know this? How many?
Kathy: Yeah. What Do you know? How many people do you know at this outlet or,
Michelle: yes. And guess what? If I did know someone, they might’ve been laid off yesterday. So like it doesn’t this is not really. I just, I see that question come up or, it’s cringy when it does come up because you’re just like, that’s not the right question.
[00:17:00] It always
Kathy: comes up. But yes, it is not the right question to ask.
Michelle: One thing that I came into my mind as we were talking about what do startups need? What about customers? What, how do you feel? Do they need to have customers in order to do PR effectively?
Kathy: I think there’s always exceptions to every rule, but I tend to think that’s, you want to start with some customers.
Yes. Like I, I think that maybe there are other things in the marketing mix that you’re, you may be. Get started with, build up some customers before you jump into PR. I think you can always find a situation where someone can say, Oh, here’s a situation in which that’s not necessary.
But if I had to say in general, I would think so. Do you agree?
Michelle: I this, and sometimes here’s what I find too. I think there were times when I didn’t, when I didn’t get a clear answer on that. And then or maybe they said they [00:18:00] did. And then we got to the point where the reporter said, can you send me a couple of customer references that they said they had, and then they really didn’t have, they were either beta customers or the customers weren’t really a good, fit or didn’t have, they don’t know what to say, or they don’t, say the right thing.
You know what I mean? Like it just feels I do think they need them. I do think they need them. I
Kathy: mean, I think I to think reporters in general, and I just think it’s again, it comes down to you have X amount of resources. Like, when are you going to throw them against you? PR when, probably a lot of things are competing for your resources.
It seems like you want to build us up some success and some customers before you jump into PR. And especially now I feel like customer stories and case studies are really more important now. Like I, I think a lot of outlets, like if you look at business insider as an example, like all their stories about.
Interviewing so [00:19:00] some sort of problem and it. Those co right? Like you want to p you’re doing is successfu I think that’s, I would strongly advocate for that. Let’s put it that way.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I was just curious because I don’t know if it was just me, but I’ve had that happen to me before.
Then it just it makes everyone look bad because the reporter’s asking you thought you had that, that to give them and then the client doesn’t have. And then the story just falls apart if they don’t have that to provide. And it makes. The PR person’s reputation.
It just, it hurts everyone. So it’s just not a good, look when they don’t if they don’t, they should say that, but it, but if they say they do, then we need to make sure that’s really, yes, that’s really a thing.
Kathy: Yes.
Michelle: So let’s say a startup is a little further along in its PR journey.
So [00:20:00] what are some milestones or inflection points when having Proactive PR program might be worthwhile.
Kathy: Oh gosh. Okay. I think that, the short answer would be, when you think you have a story to tell, but I think for, okay. So for a lot of startups, it might be. You’re going to be raising some money, right?
You have a fundraising event. Maybe you have something to announce, right? Maybe you have reached certain milestone in terms of sales. Maybe you are launching a new product or service and it’s just gone live. Like you have some news to share. So I think about it, this like PR in general, in two categories, like one is you have a story to tell because you’ve got some new news, right?
And you feel like it’s at the point where, okay, we’re ready for someone to. To talk about this news and we’re ready to be paid attention to, right? . I, but I think the other thing which is maybe a little more evergreen is, maybe you don’t have some big announcement or news to share, but maybe you feel like, we have something to [00:21:00] say.
We’re ready to tell our story. We have a certain expertise that we wanna. Talk about and you just feel ready to put yourself out there, right? Like maybe you have a founder or certain employees that have a certain expertise. And that’s an asset, that you can parlay into media coverage or visibility just by making those people available to talk about trending topics in the news.
So I think, A lot of times it’s triggered by an event or a milestone of some sort, but I think it can also just be, they’ve reached a certain comfort level. They want to put themselves out there and they feel like they could be a great resource for, media outlets and things of that nature.
Michelle: I, it seems to me a lot of times it is around funding even positioning to raise funding or for sure.
Kathy: I think funding, that’s a big one. You’re right. And it’s not just, oh, we have funding to announce it’s, we are ready to raise. We need to get ourselves out [00:22:00] there a little bit more. We need more visibility.
That’s a big part of it for sure.
Michelle: Yeah, that kind of dovetails into I, I have a question. This is very simplistic, what are some ways that PR can help startups? And helping them attract investors. I, again, I think being out in Silicon Valley, when I started consulting a worker, that was a lot of the time, the thing that they wanted, and to do that, they needed like a body of media coverage that kind of gave them more credibility.
And I think I know you might have some thoughts about how that looks to potential investors or when they’re getting ready to talk to them.
Kathy: For sure. Yeah. I think that, you mentioned the credibility. I think that’s I guess I would say the number one reason why a startup or any company would want to think about PR, it’s to build that trust and third party credibility with all of your audiences. I think You know, I’m sure, I don’t know if all the listeners here will know about the Edelman Trust [00:23:00] Barometer, but it’s this kind of yearly study where they look at trust and I think their newest one just came out and trust for companies is at this all time low, which is really sad, but here’s one of those great ways to build that trust and credibility and So I don’t know.
It’s just one of those things. I think it’s a fundamental and it’s great way to do it. But yeah, like you said, like at a very simple level, like investors like to see media coverage, right? They want to see it. They do respond to those placements in those notable outlets. Although the Wall Street journals, the New York times, it may be an important trade publication. And even just having a body of work, if you say that you can share with investors really does mean something. I think that is, I hear that a lot, from startups, it’s that of course they want to reach their customers and maybe get someone to click or buy or be more aware of them.
And those things are all important, but I think sharing things with compa [00:24:00] with their customers. Potential investors is really a big part of it for sure.
Michelle: I think they Google just like everyone else. Investors and
Kathy: search SEO and search, right? What’s going to come up for your company, right? Yeah.
When is it going to be?
Michelle: It should pop up. And hopefully, The a lot of mentions and I’ve been talking a lot about AI based search. Yes, I was going to say that. I know
Kathy: you’ve been talking a lot about that.
Michelle: I just think it underscores the need for what we do, right? Because companies want to show up everywhere and startups are no different.
And in fact, it’s probably, I would say a lot of times it’s more challenging for startups to get media coverage, but now there are a lot of options for them to pursue. It’s not just the Wall Street Journal anymore, right? Not that I ever thought that was the only place, but even we can see now, anytime you’re in an article on a podcast, in a, maybe even in a newsletter or mentioned on social media, it’s going to pop up and search.
So I just feel like [00:25:00] that is going to drive the need for what we do more than ever because, who does that better than PR pros? So
Kathy: absolutely. And you’re right. I don’t think it’s just about the big media outlets. I think, depending on your industry, there are certain podcasts that.
Might really have some clout. Like I, interestingly, I had a client recently that was on the pitch podcast. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, not only is that podcast a, it’s hosted by I think venture capitalists. But it, that helped them attract some additional funding.
So that had a very clear outcome for them. That’s not always the case, but I think that. You have to certainly look beyond the wall street journals, the new york times, and look at, what’s going to be influential for your particular industry.
Michelle: And another thing that just popped into my head is that sometimes that content is gated unless somebody has a subscription to the new york times or the wall street journal or Washington post.
And so they can’t even read the story. And also AI search, they’re not going to be able to get that content like they would if it was just, [00:26:00] Maybe a trade journal that didn’t have a pay paywall. For sure. I think that’s another argument to hopefully get people away from just, oh, I have to be the Wall Street Journal Again, nothing wrong with wanting that, and you can put that on your list, but that shouldn’t be like the end all, be all.
I just, it’s never made sense to. Yes. I agree. That’s sometimes that’s the way it is. Let’s see. What have we not talked about here? So what are some common mistakes startups make? Oh, this is a good one.
Kathy: Oh gosh. Okay. So I think I’ve talked about some of them, but I think, Not having a plan or knowing like what you want, where you want to be, like really thinking that part through and just again, practicing just randomly hiring someone or hiring an agency and not really knowing like why you’re doing it.
Don’t do that. I think maybe in some cases for startups in particular, I would say they’ll go out and they’ll hire this [00:27:00] big agency. And that might not really be what you need to do. You may not need to put all of those financial resources against a huge agency. Like one of the things that’s nice about, the time that we’re in is that there’s a lot of good people, I would say, that are either solo practitioners or they’ve worked at agencies and they bring that big agency experience to the table.
It might be like one or two people that you’re hiring. I think you have options is what I’m trying to say. Maybe you opt to have somebody that’s just working with you part time, but I would say don’t just because, there’s some big agency that works with all these other big companies that you admire, like that might not be the solution for you.
I think you just have to be careful. I think that sometimes it’s hiring. Hiring too late is also sometimes like I think some as we get people coming to us that are like I have this huge announcement and it needs to go out tomorrow and we need press coverage by next week. And so sometimes just not planning [00:28:00] ahead and being very reactive about things is not good.
You need to really plan ahead. A lot of times, we are dealing with lead times. We’re dealing with the fact that, ideally you want to build those reputations with certain reporters, like in a well in advance of when you’re looking for coverage on something. So I think that can be.
A little bit of an issue. I’m just trying to think this isn’t just a problem with startups. I think this is just in general, but I think sometimes just thinking you have a really big story or you’ve got a big news when in fact it is not really big news, like you added launched a new website, that is just, in a lot of cases, it’s just not going to be news. And I know that it’s hard. Nobody wants, I have a client tell me, you never want someone to tell you that your baby is ugly, right? It’s just, but I think you have to really make sure that you’re working with somebody who understands the news environment and what’s news and helps you to craft the right [00:29:00] angles.
And helps tell you what is news and what is not.
Michelle: You want someone to be honest with you. Hopefully you want somebody to have that back and forth with you. Don’t want to hire a yes PR person. That’s sometimes what I call it, like an order taker. Go write this press release, go to, sure.
Again, I’m sure that many of us have been in that situation and maybe there are people who are, like that works for them. But I think if you want real. Counsel, real strategy. You want to hire somebody that has experience and opinions and will share those and help you understand because the worst thing is when, they don’t understand, but they think they do.
And then, yes,
Kathy: yes, I, and that is, I would, that has to be like up with one of the number one issues. And again, I go back I think that’s why like ongoing education is so important because. I don’t think we expect clients to understand it. That’s not, that’s not what they’re paid to do.
I think, but I think [00:30:00] you have to be open to hearing, cause, and especially like the media landscape is always changing. And that it’s our job to stay on top of that and figure out like. How do we tell a story? How do we come up with something that’s going to be interesting or, relevant?
And, but I think it is so important to just lean on your person, to try and help you. That’s what you’re paying us for.
Michelle: And honestly, I don’t know about you, but that’s one of my favorite parts of my Work my job is working with clients and answering their questions.
Yeah. I just encourage them to ask me the questions. Exactly. No
Kathy: dumb questions. There are no dumb questions. And there, it’s okay if you don’t know, and just, that’s okay. Ask the question.
Michelle: Yeah. You’re like a sounding board for them, and like sometimes. I know clients like internally, they don’t, they may maybe don’t want to act or appear like they don’t know the answer.
So then they can turn to you to have that discussion and then they can go into their meeting or whatever it is with their, colleagues and, be more [00:31:00] prepared to have that conversation or explain or whatever it is. So I love that part of what I do. And I, for sure, I think that’s yeah I like it.
Encourage you to ask questions and,
Kathy: and I understand it’s a different, especially if, maybe you have. It’s so different than paid media, for example, right? Like we’re talking about something that’s earned, right? It’s a very different approach. It requires a lot of nuance. It requires a lot of patience.
And I know that could be an uncomfortable Place sometimes for startups and just businesses in general is, investing in more of a longterm effort that requires relationship building and, different ideas, different angles. And so I get it. I think it’s just like the more we can do as PR professionals to prepare clients about how this is going to go and how this is, I think the ever, the better everyone.
Michelle: Yeah, you just brought up another point that I had thought about when you said something a little earlier about one offs [00:32:00] versus ongoing. I know sometimes startups, they maybe they struggle with budget. That’s another question I have to ask here. But if they can’t always if they can’t engage in an ongoing PR effort is do you think it’s okay to do it on a project basis or kind of on an as needed basis?
What do you think about that?
Kathy: I think there is a place for projects. I think again, if going back to if you have an announcement. That, you need to make, and it has a starting point and an ending point, and that’s all you can really invest in right now I don’t think that you, I think that’s okay, I think the ideal state is always going to be ongoing because it does take time to, build your relationship with reporters, and if you’re only reaching out to them once in a blue moon, That’s more difficult, right?
I think you want to have a drumbeat of relationship and news and ideas coming to reporters that you want to [00:33:00] pay attention to so I would say yes it’s okay. Projects are okay. If you have a specific goal in mind, you have a specific piece of news that you want to get out there. But I think ideal state is Something that’s more ongoing because I think a lot of, a lot results, whether especially if you’re looking for a longer term feature, or you want to be an expert, that comments on trends in the industry I think those things are only going to be achieved if you have an ongoing, always on PR program in place.
Michelle: There’s a lot of value to that too. And having somebody like a PR consultant that you can talk to and have them on call and you never know what’s going to come up in your startup world.
Kathy: Exactly. Like whatever that looks like, it’s your agency, it’s your consultant, it’s your in house, person, part time or not.
Like just, as long as you have a resource that’s there, ongoing. Yeah, that’s always ideal and you’re going to get more out of it that way.
Michelle: Yeah. When I work with smaller businesses they sometimes have a one person, marketing team and that [00:34:00] person cannot possibly, consistently do handle PR on top of everything else that they’re doing.
So sometimes it is nice to have somebody, that you can. Lean on a little bit in that way. And I think I want to talk just for a minute about budgets. And I know that this is, can be a tricky question. So I’m not going to ask you like how much should startups plan to spend? Cause it’s going to vary based on their location, your location, all of that kind of stuff, but I think there might be a.
sometimes an idea that it has to be expensive and, or they’ve maybe considered it and it’s just like a nice to have, they don’t see it as a must. Let’s talk about that a little bit because there are options for them.
Kathy: Yeah. I think that’s, that to me is the headline and I would not say that’s, always been as prevalent, I think that it was for a long time.
I, and I come from agency, so I always felt it was like, Either you hire an agency or maybe you have someone that you’ve hired in house, as a full time person. But I didn’t, [00:35:00] I feel like now the idea of a consultant or a fractional person is much more common and not just in PR.
I think one of the ways I’m seeing startups. Tackle other functions in their company, they may have a fractional CFO, they may have a fractional CMO. I think there’s options now if you want an experienced person, you just frankly do not want, you might not even need a full time person, right?
And so why would you pay for it? So I just think, I wouldn’t say don’t let too expensive keep you from exploring the options out there, and I think it is going to look different for every company depending on where they are in their growth. What their goals are, but I think I love that.
I think, and I love the fact that, there’s a lot of good people out there and I keep seeing on my feet, people that I used to work with at big agencies, in marketing or PR and, they’re going off to do their own thing. And I think that’s a great. That’s a great thing for startups.
Michelle: Yeah, I agree. And I do think that they [00:36:00] should be realistic though about what it will cost. Because I think, obviously an agency is usually going to be more expensive than a consultant. Not always, but often because the agency comes with, overhead and resources and things that maybe consultants don’t have.
Kathy: You’re not going to get the full PowerPoint presentations all the time, necessarily with a consultant or just, maybe the same extent of always having someone available, it’s but I, that may not really be what you need. And do you have to wait? No,
Michelle: That’s the thing.
Maybe they don’t need that. So that’s, especially if they’re small and growing and new and, so they may not really, it may be overkill in fact for what they need. So I think it’s really important to again, think about what you need, but then talk to a few different folks or options and consider, what would be the best fit and don’t base it only on.
Cost maybe, but also what expertise are they bringing to the table? Because again, this doesn’t always happen, but when you hire an agency, you often, they’ll bring in the most senior person to do the [00:37:00] pitch. And then day to day though, you might be working with somebody who maybe doesn’t have as much experience.
So I think it’s really important to understand who you will be working with on a day to day basis. I think that’s a fair question.
Kathy: Yes, I think that’s a very fair question. And I think, okay, so it may be if you are further along in your growth and you are looking for somebody that can do media relations, but also influencer marketing and also, maybe some video over here that may be when you do want an agency, right?
If they’ve got all those departments. But I think it just comes down to, you really have to ask yourself what do we truly need right now? And, don’t, Don’t hire all the bells and whistles for the sake of all the bells and whistles, or because this other company that’s like super big that you admire hired them.
That might not be what’s right for you right now. And by the way, I fully believe if I work with a company and they’ve gotten to a stage in their growth where they need more manpower. That’s great. Go for an agency. I think it just [00:38:00] depends on what you need right now and, look at that and then you can figure out what’s right for you.
Michelle: I’ve been thinking more and more about this. And the thing is if you’re a big company, you have unlimited resources. You can buy, you can pay for a big agency or maybe. Several agencies, you can pay for all the tools and all the bells and whistles and all the shiny objects you want. If you’re money’s no object to those companies, right?
If you’re apple money’s no object, right? But if you’re a startup or a smaller business. You do have to make some decisions about how you’re going to allocate your funds for marketing, PR, communications, and you might, it’s the same things are not a fit for those people. That’s all I’m saying.
And I, sometimes I hate to sound like I’m, down talking agencies, but I’m just saying sometimes it’s not a fit. It’s too much.
Kathy: Absolutely. I, I definitely worked for big agencies. I, there was. One of my agency roles was working for Procter and Campbell and we worked on the tide [00:39:00] business and at any one time they had four or five launches going on events.
So much, and we had a huge team and that was fully justified, like that’s what they need, so I, there is definitely a place for agencies. I think it’s just when you’re in the startup world, you may want to think about what you truly need at this point in time in your journey.
Michelle: Yes, that’s very important.
So that works well with this next question. So if a startup does want to hire PR help, what should they be looking for? And I think we’ve covered a little bit of this, but let’s get into it a little bit deeper here.
Kathy: Yep. You mentioned before, I think just Someone that’s going to be honest with you is so important, right?
And so I think whether it’s a small agency, a person, like just if someone’s asking you a lot of good questions, like I think that’s a good sign. I think to your point, Look at a variety of options, see what feels right for you. You can figure out okay, what feels right in terms of a [00:40:00] person versus an agency, like who’s going to be the team, who’s going to be my day to day contact.
You definitely want to ask that. That is so important. Who’s going to be working on my business. I’d say ask, maybe just figure out what industries have they worked in? Are they industries that you’ve been in before? That might, be a helpful first step, but I don’t think that they have to have worked in your industry, but I think that’s always helpful.
What. What are your actual capabilities and do they match with what you’re looking for? For example, are you just going to want media relations? Do you want influencer relations? Are what are you actually going to need? And just make sure that team has experience doing those things.
If you sell, do you need event support? If you sell a product, do you. Are you talking to someone who understands affiliate marketing? And that’s very important these days if that’s what you do. So I just think making sure the team is going to match what you need. I would definitely look to see examples of past results, like what, how have they tackled [00:41:00] communications?
Problems before, not even problems, how have they gotten coverage in the past for clients, and how have they creatively done that references, I would say for sure. I think it’s always a great sign when you’ve got other clients that can, are going to say great things about the experience that they had with whoever it is that you’re wanting to work with
Michelle: Yeah.
Kathy: What am I missing, Michelle? What other things?
Michelle: I’m sure there’s a very long list of I’ve probably written a blog post about it somewhere. I’m sure
Kathy: you have. But yeah, I think just those are some of the things to look at. Look at your options, ask those questions. And then again, going back to this idea of, really get clear about what you’re hoping to get out of PR first and foremost.
Think about your goals before you go into this, right? You just don’t hire a PR agency just because. Have an idea of what you want to get out of it, make that clear to whoever it is that you’re interviewing and then see how they react. They may say that’s not really what PR does or that’s not, I don’t think that it’s realistic.
I [00:42:00] think you just have to be really clear on what it is that you want to get out of PR first.
Michelle: Yeah. We can’t read your mind. We they need to be very upfront with us. And sometimes I’ll even ask, what are the top five, media outlets that you’re, you would like to be featured in, what’s your dream list or what’s your, and sometimes they don’t have.
I don’t know. I know. And so then it’s of course I can do research but it is helpful to at least understand what they are thinking and expecting because there’s all kinds of ways you can go with it. And I think knowing where your audience is spending time, I think you brought that up very early in our conversation.
That is vitally important because if you don’t know that it’s going to be really hard to get yourself in the right place to get in front of those folks. That’s really important. So you are looking again, as you, as the startup is evaluating the PR resource should be evaluating the startup as well.
Do they understand where their competitors, cause that’s one of the first things that a reporter is going to look at, they’re going to, if you don’t, if you say you don’t have any, The reporter’s going to go find some, so
Kathy: [00:43:00] I’m like, so I’ve definitely had that with clients. We’re so unique.
We just do this, unique thing and there, we have no competitors. You will, you almost always are going to have competitors.
Michelle: Yeah. And again, like if you don’t think you have some, wait till this article comes out because the reporter is going to find you some. It’s better to know the landscape and hopefully, that the startup founders are savvy and understand, that they need to have all of that in place.
And of course, a strategic PR consultant or. or counsel can really, can help with some of those, the answers to those questions and messaging and all those things. But I think, it’s really hard to be successful if the startup isn’t somewhat aware of all of that going into the engagement.
So it’s important. Yes, it is. What’s, what would you say, what’s startups, Kathy?
Kathy: Oh, that’s a good one. It’s funny cause I think I mentioned this, but I feel like for a long time, I worked for larger agencies [00:44:00] with big established brands and that was a great experience. And I loved it.
But, there was also a lot of red tape and a lot of meetings and it took a lot to get approved. Rules and get things done. And I love the fact that startups are more nimble. You can get answers on things more quickly. A lot of times. What’s so great is that you have this direct access to the CEO or the founder and the leadership team which by the way is very important, and startup PR and I, so I feel you, you’re close to what’s going on, right?
You’re you’re in the room where it happens, ideally, and, or at least you should be. And I don’t know. I just, I love. The idea of shining a spotlight on companies that are trying to build something new and change the world or do something new and exciting. And that’s been a lot of fun for me after working with these big established household names.
It’s Oh, those people already have attention. Like it’s fun to try and get, these new. New company’s attention, right? The attention they deserve. So [00:45:00]
Michelle: it can be really rewarding. And I, as a PR pro it’s there’s, it never gets old to get, coverage for your clients.
Kathy: When you get that email from a journalist, it’s. It’s so exciting. It never gets old.
Michelle: Yes. You’re doing that search and up it pops or it pops up in your, like your alerts or whatever. You’re like, what? So
Kathy: it’s like the slot machine ah, so
Michelle: yeah, no, I don’t think that ever gets old.
So it’s good to have. I’m glad to hear you have that same like passion about it. Cause I still feel like that and it’s still great. Fun and exciting. So what else is there anything else that you want to cover that we haven’t talked about We’re almost at our top of the hour. But of course if anyone has questions, feel free to ask I know a lot of people listen to the replay and that’s perfectly fine as well But if you have a question for kathy please feel free to ask try
Kathy: to think like what have we not [00:46:00] covered?
I don’t know. I would just miss it just more. I think, just speak. I would also say, I think that sometimes companies think that when they’re still super small that nobody wants to hear from them or they don’t have anything valuable to say. And I would say I don’t think that’s true.
You don’t have to be this massive, traded on the stock market kind of company to have PR work for you. I think that. Yeah. You can still, like we talked about, maybe you’ll be you’re you can get that attention in local media or trade press and I don’t, I just, I don’t have that limiting mindset of, oh we’re too small.
We can’t do it. No one’s going to care. I think it’s always something to explore. And, a lot of times it can be something that will work well for you.
Michelle: That is a great note to end on. And I just want to remind everyone to please follow Kathy on LinkedIn or visit her site. And I want to thank Kathy for being with us.
I think this was a great [00:47:00] conversation and I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Kathy.
Kathy: I did too. Thank you, Michelle. It’s also great to talk with you.
Michelle: And please join us. We’ll be back later in the month when Karen Freeberg will be my guest. We’ll be talking about social media and PR. I hope you’ll you’ll be back for that for another episode of PR Explored.
Thank you so much.
Kathy: Thank you.
