It’s time for a mid-year check-in on PR trends. Has AI destroyed PR as we know it? Is TikTok the only media channel that matters?
Back in December, Bill Byrne of Remedy Public Relations and I discussed which PR trends we’d be keeping an eye on as we headed into the new year. Some of the trends we noted: AI in PR. The shrinking number of media outlets. How silos impact our work. The role the C-suite plays in the success of a PR program.
So, where are we now? And what trends should we be watching as we enter the second half of 2025?
I’m excited that my colleague (and friend) Byrne is joining me again. He’s frequently named a Top 10 PR expert and influencer and often contributes to marketing industry trades, including Ragan PR Daily, Muck Rack, and Bulldog Reporter.
Show summary:
In this episode of ‘PR Explored,’ host Michelle Garrett, a public relations consultant, or PR consultant, author, writer and speaker, is joined by returning guest Bill Byrne of Remedy PR to discuss current trends and significant topics in the field of public relations.
The discussion covers the importance of building strong professional relationships within the PR industry, their recent projects, the critical role of timing and collaboration in PR efforts, and the integration of AI in PR practices. They also delve into the importance of media literacy, the impact of social media, and the fragmentation of the media landscape.
The conversation emphasizes the necessity for ongoing, iterative communication strategies, thought leadership, and the involvement of the C-suite in PR efforts. Additionally, they highlight the value of media training and the comprehensive approach needed for effective PR campaigns, urging the audience to view PR as a long-term investment rather than a series of isolated activities.
Both Garrett and Byrne stress the importance of consistent, long-term PR efforts and share practical advice for working effectively with media and leveraging PR tools to build brand credibility.
00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction
01:58 PR Trends and Collaborations
03:51 Timing and Media Relations
06:53 AI in Public Relations
21:42 Social Media Strategies
27:01 Consumer Engagement on Social Media
27:52 The Importance of Visual Content
28:39 Engaging with Customers at Trade Shows
29:01 The Role of Visuals in B2B Marketing
31:33 The Fragmented Media Landscape
32:44 The Value of Substack and Local Media
34:31 Challenges in Media Outreach
36:11 Integrating PR with Overall Marketing Strategy
36:54 Breaking Down Silos in Marketing
46:04 The Importance of Thought Leadership
46:17 Involving the C-Suite in PR
51:16 The Basics of PR and Long-Term Strategy
53:11 Final Thoughts and Open Invitation for Questions
Show notes:
Follow Bill on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billbyrne/
Bill and I’s discussion on PR trends for 2025 (Dec. 2024): https://michellegarrett.com/podcasts/2025-pr-trends/
PR pros have discovered how to influence the chatbots: Talk to a journalist – https://www.semafor.com/article/05/11/2025/pr-pros-have-discovered-how-to-influence-the-chatbots-talk-to-a-journalist
Michelle’s post on how to leverage PR to show up in AI-driven search: 5 PR Tips to Help Companies to Shine in AI-Based Search Results
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Mid-Year Check on PR Trends to Watch with guest Bill Byrne
Michelle: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of PR Explored the PR video podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations. I’m your host, Michelle Garrett, a public relations consultant or PR consultant, author and writer, and today my guest is my colleague and friend, bill Byrne of Remedy pr.
Yay. Hey
Bill: Michelle. Good to see you again. Welcome
Michelle: back. I just said you are my only repeat guest and you have been, this is your third time. I know. I just repeat. I just love our rapport and I just feel very confident and comfortable talking to you, so thank you.
Bill: And in our zone, you know that certain people get it right even though you and I work in different lanes of public relations and earned media.
There’s a few of us when we follow on Twitter and we interact with how I think you and I first. Got to know each other there. People [00:01:00] that get it are kindred spirits in this zone. And so I really appreciate you as a friend, but also the content you put out. So it’s not just me screaming from the mountaintops, this is how you do pr.
I can share Michelle’s and be like, this woman’s really smart. Follow
Michelle: her. I appreciate it and you and I have been doing a couple of things here and there together. So it’s a good, I think it’s a good collaboration and I always look forward to these conversations. So I’m excited. And I also wanna just show off my shirt for a second.
I have my, I love PR shirt on that I got from USC Annenberg. That was my last guest was Fred Cook from U US C Annenberg. And he had the shirt and said, our book show store sells these shirts. So I’m wearing my shirt. Get outta here. That’s amazing. So everybody get your I Love PR shirt anyway. I’m not, that’s, I don’t get anything for saying that anyway, but I would love it.
Before we get started, [00:02:00] as people get settled that might be joining, just tell us, talk us through, the latest and greatest. Tell us about yourself. Anything that you would like to share. I’m gonna put your LinkedIn link in the comments. Sure.
Bill: So I’m co-founder and managing director of Remedy PR based in San Diego, but we’ve got people all around the country.
We’re a decentralized agency for various reasons that I won’t get into here, but for most brands it does make sense. We’ve been pretty busy this year. We did some very high profile launches with Skullcandy Audio recently. They had a collab. Yep. Great brand. And they have really leveled up this year they did a collab with Bose, where we did a major New York City media event.
Then in the past month we’ve had two releases with THX audio. So that’s been keeping the team here very busy. We’re also doing some stuff on the technology side, on the non-tangible vein with brands like Rhubarb, which is a fantastic app that combines community AI [00:03:00] and gardening. So for all of you out there that came your plants alive and wanna be a little bit more sustainable and grow your own food, rhubarb is a great one to check out.
And then other than that, it’s funny, people don’t realize in our vein, but especially on the consumer product side, we’re looking at fall and winter stories right now. So unfortunately, and you get this too, I’m sure we get those last minute calls, Hey, we’ve got this launch coming up. Hey, we’ve got this, we need help.
I’m like, cool. When they’re like three weeks, I’m like, oh, those stories are often written. So to anyone that’s not dialed into pr, please contact your teams early and they’ll give you a timeline because we can try to fast track it, but sometimes that ship sails.
Michelle: Yeah, no, it’s true. And I was just thinking about, and this is not, one of our topics today, but just about like timing, because with summer and holidays, sometimes I’m [00:04:00] experiencing it, and maybe you have too, where, you think, or the client might think, you’re gonna pitch it today and the story’s gonna appear tomorrow.
But no, that’s not necessarily how it’s gonna work. ’cause they might have stories already lined up. They may not see your first email or your first DM or whatever. So it’s sometimes you just have to allow a little bit of time in there. Let’s flip it back to People
Bill: Magazine and you’ll laugh when you see where I’m going with this.
Journalists are people too. So they go on vacation. I sent an email about a new launch yesterday to a journalist right away. I’m out of the office for 10 days. Cool. So when that person gets back, I now have to follow up with that journalist
and yeah,
Bill: hope that my message, even though it’s a journalist, I have a relationship with, bubbles to the top of the 200 other emails that they’re going to receive when they get back from their vacation.
Like you said, it doesn’t always, not [00:05:00] just one email. Heck, you and I are friends and it took us a little bit of back and forth to figure out what date we’re going to do this.
Michelle: That’s true.
That’s, I think you have to think about it, from everyone’s perspective.
’cause the client might be on vacation, you might be on vacation, the reporter might be. So it’s, this is a tricky time of year just from a timing perspective. So think through that and just have your ducks in a row as far as maybe you need a backup spokesperson, maybe you need to push it out or move it up, or, like whatever.
So I’m just, it’s not part of our hot topics, but I’m just, I think it’s a hot topic for me at the moment.
Bill: It’s a preview hot topic for sure. And as you say that too, people should remember, regardless of what religion they are, a lot of people take off in December, even if they’re not religious.
So Is Oh yeah. Brands in any vein, in any industry, are starting to look at what they wanna have happen in [00:06:00] January and February. Realize a lot of people are phoning it in. Yeah, and that’s just reality. Journalists are not firefighters, they’re not first responders. I. Yeah, they’re not, just ’cause Michelle Garrett pulls the alarm doesn’t mean they’re gonna jump and get back to her.
It’s not, no,
Michelle: because, and it’s a, it’s a balance because sometimes it’s we’re, we wanna make sure everything’s ready before we get it out there. As far as, like a link or, materials, whatever that need to be live. When you go out there and pitch, in case they wanna point back to something, the first thing they’re gonna do is go look at the website or look at the link you provided.
Sometimes it might not be live or whatever, so you have to balance it. But then, you also have to allow that time in there. So if you want it to hit a certain date, it’s just a little tricky. And you don’t really always have control over that anyway, honestly. Yeah. Unless you’re paying for it.
So
Bill: earned media, not owned media.
Michelle: That’s right. Let’s get into the reason I asked you here today is because back in [00:07:00] December you and I talked about trends as we looked ahead to 2025. And believe it or not, here we are, we’re almost halfway through the year. And we, I thought it’d be good or fun or interesting to revisit and see where the trends stand today and also look ahead to see how we think the rest of the year is shaping up.
So I would love to just start off and this is never gonna go away but AI and pr. So let’s just jump right in with that.
Bill: Sure. And transparently, I’ve gone on record in certain newsletters like Frank’s newsletter. I’m a little bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to ai. That said, I believe in it.
It’s just as a person that works in marketing for a living, it was overhyped for a little. But this is where brand managers really need to pay attention. [00:08:00] Public relations controls ai. And it’s not just me saying that it’s been noted. And what I mean is your favorite LLM, your favorite platform, say Chat, GPT or Claude, they are striking deals with publishers or in some cases stealing content from them to service their answers.
So when you type into chat GPT, what is the best at this? Or who is the best at that? Look at the sources. It’s siding, it’s pulling from publishers.
And
Bill: who works with those publishers, who works with the creators and influencers on Reddit and YouTube? It’s the PR teams.
So to retrofit it, PR controls ai.
Michelle: No, I’ve been talking about this for months and I see a lot of people and you and I have talked [00:09:00] about it, so we, but I’m not, and I’m not, I don’t mean you here, but I see a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon with that. Now, if you follow people like Christopher Penn or Andy Christina, anybody like that they talked about this, lag last fall.
And so I had them on and we talked about it, and then I’ve been writing about it because it’s like, it’s a really good argument for investing in PR because if you haven’t, you’re behind. But the next, best time to start would be today. I’m happy to
Completely.
Michelle: I’m happy to see the trend as it, because I think it it’s a, it speaks, it, it helps pr but also I’m always been a little skeptical about ai, even from an environmental standpoint. But, nobody wants to talk about that. But
Bill: that’s a whole other, Hey, listen, we’re not gonna talk about the wastefulness when you say thank you to chat GPT and then hang up, right?
Yeah, let’s not dive into that. But speaking of, ’cause this bubbles up a lot and we see it on LinkedIn a lot and it’s funny, it, a lot of [00:10:00] people are using chat, GPT or whatever to write their press releases, and you’ve seen it. I’ve seen it, and it’s obvious when they do it. The issue isn’t that people are using chat, GPT to write a press release.
It’s that they don’t know how to use Che GPT to write a press release. It’s garbage in, garbage out. They don’t understand what’s going to provide value to a journalist. And as a really easy example, I can go buy a hammer and then put a nail on the wall.
I shouldn’t stand here and throw the hammer five feet and think that’s gonna what?
Get the nail in. That’s not how it works. I’m gonna put a hole in the wall. You can use chat, GPT or whatever, LLM, you want to handle a lot of work like that. If you train it, if you put the effort in to make it a useful resource, if you just say, write a press [00:11:00] release on Bill Byrne and Michelle Garrett doing a podcast.
Alright. We’ll see. Like it might come up with something. Okay. But it might not be in our voice. It might not provide value. It might be too fluffy for you and I for our take our. Hot, realistic take on the industry, if you will. Or it might be too over the top. Yeah, you can use these tools to cut down on time, but know how to use them.
Don’t just attack that wall with a hammer without, figuring out how to tap that nail in.
Michelle: Yeah, I feel like there could be an overreliance on them. And I feel like again, I just, I guess part of my hesitation is people that work at a big corporation and are in meetings all day and have hundreds of emails a day, they’re in a different situation than somebody like me.
And so they might have more of a need for AI tools, not only for pr, but for other uses. But sometimes I just don’t see the need. It’s maybe we should [00:12:00] be rethinking all the busy work and all the meetings and all the email and is that necessary versus kind, with in, with more tools so we can, create I don’t know.
It feels, it just, I don’t know. It feels
Bill: funny to me. No, for sure. And I think you’re right. I think we should we tend to do too much and cut back there. There’s a. I’ll shout ’em out here. Zach Stevens, who’s a newer connection of mine in San Diego and Jonah Peak as well. Both of them have posted on LinkedIn about asynchronous work, meaning not everything’s gotta be a meeting.
Take the time to send me an email and give me the details and then I can work on that, offline, if you will, and we can collaborate that way. That is one of my biggest pet peeves, and we’re maybe going down too much of a rabbit hole here, but, meetings without agendas, meetings without details in advance.
It’s as simple as, hey, if you give me a call and you leave a voicemail, don’t just say, call me back. What’s it about? How do I know if you need a ride to the [00:13:00] airport or if you want the log into my Netflix or if it’s something urgent? Yeah. So tell me, because if you just ask, if I call you back and you say, Hey Bill, what’s the log into your Netflix?
I’m like. Michelle, I don’t know. Lemme go look it up. But if you just tell me that in advance.
Michelle: Yeah,
Bill: I’ll be ready.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. I’m not obviously AI is here and if we’re searching, using Google AI is part of Google. If you use Gmail, it’s in there. I use Grammarly, it’s in there. So it’s not like we’re not using ai.
However, I think just using it in a smart way. Now, I am curious to know and I put the question up there how people are using AI and what tools they are using, because there are, I think there are use cases for it because, let’s be honest, like media research databases are often out date, things like that.
Maybe something like that.
Bill: You and I were on a podcast earlier this year where AI was. Hot topic, and it does eliminate a lot of that grunt work. It, [00:14:00] Grammarly is a wonderful tool. It’s spell check on steroids. But we still have to, there’s gotta be that oversight because even now, even a few weeks ago, the popular AI still hallucinate.
They’re almost, in some ways, like teenagers that wanna tell you, that will tell you what you wanna hear.
Yeah. And
Bill: then you kick the tires. I, we’ve had them do research for us and then go in and look at citations for articles. And this has been in the news. It’s not just us.
Yeah. And
Bill: these articles don’t exist.
These stories that they’re talking about, they sound good, but they’re not there. It’s, just fairytales. So
Michelle: yeah, with any of
Bill: this, it’s, media literacy is an issue our country has in general. And we’ve seen it before. You and I went into it, I think it was over a year ago on the rise of fake PR and the rise of fake websites where
for $600 I can have an article printed on New York Weekly where [00:15:00] the headline and the masthead look like the New York Times.
Yeah. And overall it looks like a legitimate publication, but it’s not, it’s just a link sharing website that someone came up with and the content isn’t there, but to the lay person, it looks legit. Yeah. And if someone doesn’t kick the tires and say, Hey Michelle, I was on CEO weekly. Oh, no way, bill. That’s amazing,
right?
Michelle: Yeah, like
it sounds crazy.
Michelle: Yeah, it sounds good. We ha people need to be very discerning now and it’s across the board. It’s not just in our field, but of course, people are scamming people and, all ki in all kinds of ways. And yeah, I think we just have to use a lot of care and it’s, I think it’s a good time to say, underscore the importance of working with a reputable PR agency or PR consultant or just make sure they’re credible and really look into it dig into it a [00:16:00] little bit.
Do they actually, are they actually, walking the walk, or are they just talking about what they’re doing? And again, with, if you don’t have a PR resource, be careful when somebody emails you and wants you to spend thousands of dollars to be in their fake publication. So that’s another thing
Bill: there.
You, you nailed it. Getting back to our previous podcast, there’s no guarantees in pr If someone tells you they’re going to get you into, I won’t put anyone on blast, but whatever website whatever, for a flat rate. No, there, there is a reason why the biggest companies in the world rely on PR teams.
And I’m not saying that you need to spend $30,000 a month on a PR team because
Our clients at least do not spend that on us.
But there’s no guarantee. Much like with advertising, there’s no guarantee that AD is gonna get clicks. Or drive sales with pr. The downside is you can’t always see
what we do.
Bill: But, no. Anyone that wants a guarantee, [00:17:00] no. And even still, we’ve had it happen with clients where articles get hundreds of clicks and because we manage their affiliate campaigns
I can see
Bill: the back end and I see those clicks not converted. Hey we brought the horse to the water, you’ve gotta get it to drink.
Michelle: Yes.
I’m just typing in here about how people should be careful not to pay without understanding, what they’re paying for or what outlet it is. And again, it’s fine. Paid media is fine. I don’t have an issue. I sometimes, I think I come off as being against, I’m not anti paid media at all.
Oh yeah. It’s gonna spend money. Just make sure it’s with a publication that actually a, hits your target audience and b is a real publication. I guess that might be a
Bill: No. You nailed it. And I’m gonna shout out ’cause it’s not clicking over for me, but Jessica Hamlin has been commenting and she’s right check three times media literacy.
Does this seem too good to be true? Because if it was only $600 to get you into whatever, [00:18:00] why doesn’t everyone do it? And the real reason is it’s not real pr, it’s. You’re gonna be hidden on the back page of some website. We had that I mentor in the the Techstars organization.
Yes.
Bill: And there was a product where, he’s asking what it costs to engage with the team. And I gave him a range for us. And I said, Hey, listen for your needs, maybe you need to find that individual consultant who’s, 30 years old and you’re one of three clients and can really go all in. And I said, Hey, here’s some fake PR too, give a look.
And he is what’s wrong with it? And I’m like, it’s not gonna do anything for you except that you can brag that you were on this website and he had a call. He is this is too good to be true. I’m like, it is. It’s, yeah. Listen if it did anything
We would do it right and save a lot of money.
Our margins would be insane.
Michelle: The number of those that I see, it means that [00:19:00] somebody is buying into that. I’m assuming, but it’s pretty bad because it’s I just it, I don’t know. I feel like people should be able to tell the difference between, honestly, a lot of media is not gonna get in touch with you probably proactively, unless you’re Apple.
But the other thing is, there it’s a little, it just, the way they read is always a little fishy to me. So
Bill: EE exactly. And not to throw any industry under the bus, but in these high profile business publications
Do we really think that they’re gonna cover a local orthodontist or someone that’s finding a different way to, do landscaping.
These aren’t stories that get written unless you pay for them.
Michelle: Yeah, and if you pay for it, for example, I’ll just throw out Forbes counsel, if you pay for it, just be honest that you’re paying for it. Just be, don’t make it sound like, oh, Forbes is, no, you paid for that. So just, it’s, I know people do it and people know it, and people
Bill: know, I’ll we’ll stop beating up on those guys after this, but if you Google it, if [00:20:00] you go down the Reddit rabbit hole, just go into Reddit and type in whoever is selling you on this.
There’s lots of threads about these agencies that are really selling you Advertorial and advertorial is great, right? Buy an advertorial, but don’t expect it to do the same as landing that top trade publication or the New York Times or what have you.
Michelle: Yeah. No problem. And then in fact, I would even go so far as to say I, and I will say this to clients too, and I’ve seen how it works sometimes if you have the budget to pay for a little bit of paid media, it helps you on their media side.
And some editors or publications won’t want me to say that. Some PR people won’t. But I know that it works because I’ve seen it recently. In fact just even a little spin can get their attention, get you connected, get on their radar what’s gonna get you on the radar? And also too, [00:21:00]
Bill: it’s symbiotic relationship.
You’re only gonna get so many earned media hits for your brand. So how do we continue to get that visibility?
And it’s, there is diminishing, we’ve, I’ve said it to brands before, you don’t only spend so much on us, depending on the size of the brand and their need. You should amplify this and sustain that traction with.
Whether it’s, performance based ads or mar other marketing efforts, billboards, gift bags, whatever. But what’s gonna keep you in front of your consumer?
You can’t just rely on pr.
Michelle: No. And that leads us into, nicely into our next topic, which is social media. Because again, we’ve got, paid, earned, shared, which is social if we’re using the peso model, which I often like to refer to.
And and we’ll talk about owned too, which is on the content side. But let’s talk about social. ’cause I know in [00:22:00] B2B, of course, LinkedIn is always the thing. I think YouTube is an issue, is something to consider for everybody now, probably on every side if you’re not already doing it. Probably time to get on there.
But let me hear about from the B2C side. What are you seeing there?
Bill: It’s getting into this larger macro trend of not the biggest audience, but the right audience. So when it comes to earned social everyone wants that top tier creator. That top tier creator is usually getting some dollars on the backend.
I’ve got a hybrid role with one client now where I’m seeing where the spend is and whether or not it’s disclosed on the creator side or it’s in the very fine print, like a drug ad, right? Like we used to see on tv.
There’s some transactional things at play beyond simply giving somebody product to demo or inside access.
But all that said, there’s a lot of traction to be had with, they’re not new, but the [00:23:00] micro creators, the talkers of the world. And even, a little bit on, on the B2B side and certain industries we’ve seen where, there’s construction tiktoks, there’s, tiktoks that do home inspections and things like that.
Whatever industry you’re in, there’s people in that vein. Now, all that said, but you nailed it with YouTube, one of the downsides of YouTube is that. We can see the number of views these videos are there. And oh my gosh, it’s this creator is not getting 10,000 views. No, but maybe it’s not a lane that deserves or needs 10,000 views.
Maybe they’re getting 600 of the right viewers. So it’d be amazing for your brand to be in the Wall Street Journal if that’s the right audience for you. Yeah. Or the audience, 600 people scouring YouTube [00:24:00] for some niche thing that like is not relevant to Michelle or Bill. It’s relevant to these people.
And that’s where it matters.
Michelle: It’s always, and I can’t say it enough, I’ll say it again, always about where your audience is spending time. It doesn’t matter if 10,000 people saw the video, if it’s not really your target audience, I don’t think, I don’t know if people really connect that in their brain or not, but it doesn’t really matter.
And that’s, and sometimes even, when you ask clients like, where is your audience spending time? Sometimes they may not know the answer to the question. And that’s, you need to find that out. If you don’t know make sure and do that research. ’cause that’s always important. So
Bill: Yes for sure.
And it is funny, we saw this actually with a, with a group that we’re mentoring, not a client.
But they were going to a trade show in the construction industry.
And,
Bill: We give them, through our mentorship, the basic tips that are, block and tackle to us, but new to them, we’re like, Hey, listen, the show [00:25:00] probably has a media list.
Get it for them six weeks before the show. Introduce yourself. You don’t need a big fancy press. Kitt. What is your brand? What are you doing? What’s new? Done. They did it. And this software in the technology industry had a talker in the heating and air conditioning space come to their booth at the show.
And the booth isn’t fancy. It’s not like the CES days. With like lasers and dragons and,
Everything,
Bill: Tabletop display, laptop, nothing super tangible. The toker loved it.
Did a
Bill: whole, I wanna say three to five minute video on them. Hockey stick growth that they could see from that little outreach.
So don’t discount the small social people, especially because that talker today could go on to be the next big thing in [00:26:00] some social media channel that we’re not even on the radar yet
tomorrow.
Bill: And that’s what we’ve gotta always play that long game. You’ve seen it, journalists start here.
Michelle: Yeah. Now we’re here. I can’t speak enough of consistency on the long game and not giving up too soon on any of these things yeah. What about Instagram? Did you mention Instagram?
Bill: I didn’t, but it’s still a thing, it’s, there, there is the downside of, you know the pay for play, but what I didn’t get into actually, and I’m sorry.
So we did this New York City event recently, and we got amazing coverage from this top tier, high profile media outlet.
I won’t name
Bill: names, but they also did an Instagram reel and I think thing was like 45 seconds. Now the coverage wasn’t as in depth, but I’ll tell you that reel got almost as many views as the Katy Perry Blue Origin launched the rocket and the comments on the reel overwhelmingly [00:27:00] positive.
So while the reel itself didn’t get as in depth
The traction was amazing. And would also I loved seeing consumers on that reel. Were commenting about YouTube videos from other reviewers. Oh, I saw so and check this out. Oh, I saw so and check this out. I’m not gonna buy this until I see someone else write about it.
It’s and then they’re referencing it. It’s not always the most views. Like we said, it’s like an Instagram reel. Really? And that reel only got, I wanna say a hundred, only 130,000 views.
Michelle: Yeah.
Bill: But it’s 130,000 actively engaged people versus Oh, cool. I saw you in this publication.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah it, it matters.
The power of the visuals again. And we, and I’m not gonna we don’t have to go deep dive on this ’cause we did talk about it last time, but just, I think that’s [00:28:00] very powerful and that, that brands clients also need to be thinking about still photos, video, anything that visually captures the audience because people are not really reading as much I read, but that’s, my, that’s what I, and that’s where I like to get my info.
But I know a lot of people would rather just watch a short video or look at some pictures, draw them into a story. So Pro, pro provide
Bill: easy content because that’s how people are, right? But also brands need to engage more with their customers. There. Click thank you. But right away if you’re at a trade show and here’s a easy hack and people are commenting on your brand.
Your social media team needs to be on there saying, thank you. That’s awesome. Come by the booth, whatever it is you’re doing. Thank you for the attention, unless, certain brands don’t need to, but chances are, if you’re watching this, you’re not one of those [00:29:00] brands.
Michelle: Yeah. I just feel like a lot of times, again, clients just are not thinking about the visuals always.
And I just we’re in an age where you have to think about that. And I would think even more on the consumer side, but I, on a B2B on the B2B front, we definitely I encourage clients to really think about that before we even, talk about what we’re gonna do as far as a strategy to get news or announcements out.
Co com completely
Bill: find those people and and B2B there’s, the audience is there, it’s just not maybe as big as, B2C. But there is the B2B audience and put the effort in. Because we’re not talking, the return can be massive.
Michelle: Yeah. I have editors that have told me, they say yes to a story if you provide images versus, the pitches they got that didn’t have any images and the more compelling images, of course they’re gonna catch their eye even more have the images, have the video, share it if you have it. And I the worst thing is when you’re scrambling to find a, an image and it’s like low res and [00:30:00] so it’s much better not only from the PR side, but also from the company client side to be thinking through and help your PR person help you
Bill: by, we call it, you’re nailing, we call it the media first perspective, but to start, that’s why brands need to talk to the PR people because we see what the journalists are writing on a daily basis.
So
Bill: you might think you’ve got some great visual. It might be great for the website, for the blog, for Instagram, but it might not work for editorial. Something with oh, here’s our product with a giant logo and whatever, and flames coming out of it. That might not be what the journalist wants to write about.
So with us, it’s Yeah. Helping them come out with a compelling headline and hook, like why does this matter?
But also knowing how busy they are, Michelle needs to give them the tools to generate the story. There’s a very good chance and, every now and again, we’re proven wrong, but these days they’re not gonna go shoot the photo, they’re not [00:31:00] gonna have time to do all these things.
So your client, in whatever vein they are, and I don’t care if they make seeds for gardening or technology or car seats for kids you’ve gotta have the visuals that work different ones and make sure that they’re editorial appro appropriate. Make sure, yeah. They’re gonna be something that a journalist will show to their audience that doesn’t look like an ad.
Michelle: Yeah. Agree. Yes. Very important. So moving along here, let’s talk about the media landscape. We talked about that. Last thought we said, we talked about how it’s splintering, how trust in media is decreasing. I think those things are very much still true, more so than ever. And a lot of people are talking about this, so honest.
Yeah. Obviously it’s not just us talking about it, but I think that just talking about, a revisiting your media list is one thing. Focusing [00:32:00] more maybe on your own media to increase trust because it’s coming from the source. And then, yeah, just let’s talk about this a little bit.
Bill: No problem. And this is one of the reasons why measurement year over year is so dicey because the media landscape changes so much. You and I have been doing this a long time when print dominated, right? So if year over year there was a time your print metrics were gonna go down because the number of outlets decreased, so you need to supplement that elsewhere and you might not get the same number of views, right?
Like we always say oh, the reach on this website is a kabillion people. I don’t really think that many people thaw, the coverage we’re getting.
But Substack is amazing and while it doesn’t always have the traction that some other outlets have, getting back to it it’s the right area for a lot of brands [00:33:00] to be in.
I’ll use locally, fred Greer, shout out to him, used to work for the San Diego Business Journal and still write some articles for them. But he’s got a very powerful substack and I know it doesn’t have a million subscribers, but it’s incredibly powerful in the local San Diego tech and startup communities and it’s amazing.
So an article there is incredible. He doesn’t publish every day. He’s very curated on what he does and it has reach. People talk about it. I go to events and they’re like, oh, did you see Fred’s newsletter? So in San Diego we would target Fred.
But
Bill: that if there’s 10 Freds in your network or in your region, that’s 10 people you’ve gotta reach out to.
So the tough part about the media landscaping fragmented is it’s going to take more effort than the days when you would go to the. One person at the trade [00:34:00] publication. Or that one person at the New York Times, ’cause now there’s 10, so we’ve gotta put more effort in. And unfortunately AI can’t help with that.
Michelle: Yeah. It might be able to help with the research part. That’s the, that’s what I’m curious on that front, so Yeah, I know we’d already talked about that, but
Bill: No,
Michelle: definitely.
Bill: But it is fragmented, right? And it’s, so we’ve gotta put more effort, listen, the job was easier when there were three morning shows and 20
Michelle: print publish.
Yeah. True. The funny thing is and we were talking just before we went on about about media reaching out proactively based on putting a press release on the wire. And that’s not a trend that we’re gonna, that we talked about before, that we need to talk about today. But I think the point is that sometimes you hear from a media outlet that your research.
A media database or just Googling or however you do your research on social or however didn’t uncover, didn’t come up in your research. So then there’s [00:35:00] maybe an argument for looking at wire service spend again. And I know some people are gonna say, shake their head again, but
Bill: Why are services definitely have a place?
I think some of it gets into what is your news and do you need that digital paper trail? If you are whatever company hired a regional manager in a certain area maybe that’s not why are service worthy by the way? Maybe that’s not press release worthy. Maybe that’s just go on the blog.
But, take the shots that are gonna bring the biggest return and are the most, the most important. But you got, you nailed it before with the research. There’s no. Magic bullet. And we, you’ve gotten these calls, I’m sure, of how much for a press release.
And I’m like we can write one for you for this, but that is not going to do what you think it’s going to do. How much to distribute it? You can put it on the wire for this or whatever, but I’m like, again, you’re buying a hammer, which isn’t gonna build a house. And by the way, it
Michelle: might not be the right tool for the [00:36:00] job.
I think a lot of people tend to look at PR as in fits and starts or bits and pieces or whatever, instead of looking at an overall program or integrating it with other efforts. And that’s gonna dovetail into our next topic,
Bill: And you’re right with integrating, you nailed it. It should be looked at as a fitness program and which involves exercise, nutrition planning, but at the most basic level.
If you go to the gym, you need to bring sneakers, right? Like you don’t go to the gym in your high heels. So having all the tools ready and merged together is incredibly important.
Michelle: Yeah. Okay, so let’s, I’m just typing
Bill: a comment. Nope. Sorry. You’ve got the hard part. We need to get an assistant for these that can interact with everybody.
Michelle: Yeah. So my next, the next topic that we talked about that I think dovetails right into what we were just talking about is [00:37:00] silos. Because, and I’m looking at them from not only just a coordinated messaging perspective, which is what we touched on, I think back in December, but also from a measurement perspective because you can’t.
Measure PR in its own little silo, it ladders up to a bigger program and not even, I saw something recently, not even a campaign as much, but it’s an overall ongoing type of effort and measurement that would be more, if more companies would look at it that way, it would benefit them
Bill: completely.
There, there shouldn’t be silos with what we do because you don’t know what’s going to drive that sale, phone call, whatever it is, we should work together. I’m not a sports guy, but it’s football. You need, it’s a team effort to get it, to get the ball over the end zone goal line.
Yeah. [00:38:00] People are gonna make fun of me and I’m okay with that. And it really is, right now I’ve got a hybrid role with one of our partners and it’s amazing because it gives me more insight to what’s going on internally.
With that organization,
Bill: which I don’t always agree with, but I see where these people are coming from and these people, and I’ve got a little bit of insight to the spend and the best teams like treat their PR people as a resource.
And
Bill: Not a vendor. Like I, I know you, you’ve, you’re so smart and good at this job that you’re not just gonna ask for budget to do something. And in certain ways you’ll be like, Hey, maybe we shouldn’t do this. Excuse me, and you should do that. Instead the silos need to go away. It’s a
Its a symbiotic
Bill: relationship with all of marketing that also involves engagement and for the junior folks out there watching this.
One of the mistakes I made in my career, which I’m beyond now, but it’s share with other people at the brand without [00:39:00] overstepping, make sure that.
The product team is aware of those PR hits, maybe send it to ’em on LinkedIn, not every day, but yeah, paying them. Make sure the person that runs advertising is aware or a sales rep is aware and get these conversations going that, benefit everyone involved because it is a team effort to get the ball into the end zone.
I think.
Michelle: Some, the, okay, so I just had a thought, PE sometimes people are territorial and sometimes that is because, someone on top is pushing them to deliver certain results, certain numbers, and so of course I see a lot just in marketing in general about how to, how measurement is changing and of course SEO and all of those things, so we need like back to the, maybe we need to rethink.
How we’re working in general with meetings and email and all that. Maybe we need to rethink measurement and look at it as a team effort, as an integrated effort. Not just, okay, PRS over here, [00:40:00] content’s over here. I don’t know, socials every, I don’t know, but there, but instead, let’s foster more collaboration and more sharing and just more working together.
Because I think that would benefit everybody. And everybody, if there are numbers that they need to meet, would hopefully be more likely to meet their numbers if they were to do that.
Bill: Yes. And if there’s areas where, again, getting into like sports analogies, if we’re not winning here, can we call a different play and go in a different direction to still meet the numbers?
These numbers are gonna be lower, but we can make these numbers higher and that will supplement because. It’s always a moving target with what we do in marketing. There’s no guarantees and we don’t, we talked about, we’re talking about silos, but what brands need to realize too, is it’s a competition for your audience.
So we’re trying [00:41:00] to get in front of the media, the advertising teams are too, but it’s not just throwing darts at a wall. It’s basketball. Someone’s there trying to block your shot.
So
Bill: we, you need to figure out ways to get around your competitors. And that’s any industry, B2B, B2C, whatever it is, there’s always el someone else out there competing for your audience.
Factor that in. So if we can’t throw the ball, can we run the ball? Can we kick the ball?
Michelle: Yeah, I’m gonna put up a quote from Jenny Dietrich that I saw that just says hopefully, I don’t know. I don’t know if I see this always, but hopefully, we’re gonna move toward greater recognition that communications is iterative and ongoing rather than just a static campaign.
And there’s a little typo there. Lemme fix that. But but yeah, I mean it’s, that’s where I think I’ve always struggled in the work that I do because it, I think the way that. Some people see it versus the way it makes sense to me are two different things, and I feel like we’re [00:42:00] moving in the direction of it making more sense, but we have to break these mindsets or these belief systems we have to get out of these, ideas that people have held for a long time about measurements and avs and all that stuff.
Oh my God, it’s just an ongoing effort, a process. Education is key. Yeah
Bill: It’s coming around, but it’s definitely hard because when people look at measuring pr, especially, one of the biggest issues we have in our industry is allowing people to think that we should be measured by the same metrics as advertising.
What’s the equivalent of this PR story? Who cares? Because what an editorial story is advice from a trusted resource. So you see an ad. That’s one level, but what’s the advice of your doctor or mechanic versus an ad? Oh, this drug is great. Or if your doctor says, Hey Michelle, this drug is great.
This is the best [00:43:00] headache medicine there is. Or this, or your mechanic, these tires are the best tire for your sort of car.
So
Bill: in lieu of that, if you’re not actually talking to your trusted mechanic and you’re opening up a magazine and it’s saying, Hey, these are the best tires to drive your kid to school in the winter this year.
Okay. That’s a lot. That’s value there. So measuring that based on ad equivalency alone is garbage.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah, I think measurements always, can be difficult, but I feel again, we’re often our own little, like island or silo trying to measure, it’s not any one thing necessarily that moves somebody to buy.
Maybe they saw an ad, maybe they saw you at a trade show, maybe they saw an article in a trade pub. Maybe So you just it’s all the things together that kind of add up. Yeah. So that’s why I feel like that just makes more sense to me. Tone, headline,
Bill: If it’s an article that includes multiple, CEO interviews or product [00:44:00] placements, like where are we on the page?
Who else is there? Who else is not there, right? If we’re doing a story on the top five wireless mice and we don’t have a client in that space, top five wireless mice is, mouse is cool, and our top three competitors are not in that story, that’s a bigger win. And how do you measure that?
And I don’t have the answer, again I’ll brag all day that Instagram reel we saw where we had almost as many views as the Katy Perry Blue Origin launch.
And also that same month, we had doubled the views of a Nike footwear launch. Sorry, Nike. Yeah.
Michelle: And some things, you, I don’t know if you can always measure in numbers.
’cause I’ve told the story before about my client, CEO will walk into an industry event and they say we’re seeing you everywhere. And to him, that’s success. That’s buzz. Yes. And that’s what PR has helped create for them. But it, and we’re not in a silo. We’re, do, there’s other, there’s a combination of things going on at any given time.
Obviously I love it when the [00:45:00] client will give me credit, but I would never claim all the credit because it’s like we’re doing things that are working together to get, to move people, to make purchases. And how
Bill: hard is it to track, right? You’ve got the great coverage for the brand or the CEO and then he’s told later, or she’s told later, we’re seeing you everywhere.
Amazing. But they don’t know that in real time until, your CEO. Again, very important is out at a conference and they’re hearing this because they’re out there because all the time we’ll get placements for brands. And anecdotally, someone will say that to us, oh, I saw this right now. They didn’t share, they didn’t comment.
They didn’t hit the like button. It happens on LinkedIn all the time. I’m, I’ll be in an event like, oh, how was your podcast with Michelle? Oh, it was great. I didn’t know that you even knew we were doing this. ’cause you didn’t plug in, you didn’t hit the like button, but you saw
Michelle: it.
Bill: I
Michelle: can’t mention it.
Yeah, no, you don’t always know. And that’s the, I think that’s the point that some people [00:46:00] make is that you can’t possibly measure everything that you’re even trying to measure. I don’t know that’s a, we could talk about measurement for a whole hour, I’m sure on its own, but I we also, I just wanna touch on thought leadership for a second, ’cause that’s a big thing especially for my clients is thought leadership.
And so I feel like that kind of dovetails into what may, maybe our last topic as we’re running outta time is getting the C-suite involved with pr. So we talked about that a little bit in December. Let’s revisit that for a minute.
Bill: Super important. I hearken back to when Twitter was called Twitter still, and we worked in the mobile tech industry.
I hope I’m pronouncing his last name right. John Legi. Love, love him or hate him. Very vocal. CEO of T-Mobile. He was out there. And by out there he wasn’t just posting, I like vanilla ice cream. He had thoughts. You can’t have a thought leadership [00:47:00] campaign. If you’re not offering something new, you can’t lead from behind.
And it’s very important to utilize your CEO as a tool especially on your end with what you do on the B2B side. And that could be, bylined articles. We just did a Reddit ask me anything with the ceo. It’s scary, right? Because you’re gonna get those, it’s a big world out there.
You’re gonna get some weird questions maybe, but you need to do it. The CEOs and you’re the expert here, but they’re part of the product. They are to an extent the brand, whether they’re high profile or not. It’s a lot of com a lot of customers, who’s running the ship, who’s the captain.
And that matters. But are you seeing similar things? I think they’re a tool.
Michelle: Yeah, I think I, I have a lot of thoughts about this, but two, I will share off the top of my [00:48:00] head are a, that the C-suite needs PR and comms involved because they don’t wanna put their foot in their mouth because we’ve seen, how that can have a ripple effect and, they get out there and maybe they’re just not prepared and get asked a question or something at an event, and, they say something that’s to, a little, not tuned in.
Yeah, that’s one thing. And then I would say, your audience wants to hear from your C-suite, because I feel like that can add credibility, right? You don’t want them hiding in their offices. You want them out there. And I think that can increase the trust because we have trust issues, right?
With, not only with media, but we have trust issues with brands. Everybody, there’s, I understand why people don’t trust. Anybody like I, I get it. The other, the, I guess there’s a third thing in that if they support pr, it’s so much more a, you’re gonna get your budget approved. That’s one thing.
But, off the other thing is that they can add so much, because again, like their [00:49:00] support then trickles down and other people will hopefully be supportive of what you’re trying to do as well, like your sales team and your other marketing folks and, so I feel if they set an example, if they value PR and they make that clear, and so it, and then it can help across the board.
So those are some things I would say
Bill: definitely be a leader. And while we’re getting into it too a lot of brands don’t wanna do this, but we did one recently with another agency and it’s important is the media training. Making sure that you’re prepared to answer the questions that might come up.
And
Bill: if not, know how to bridge and deflect. Some people are a lot better at it than others, but a lot of people could use help when it comes to getting ready for these interviews. And a lot of journalists, they’re not out to get you, but things might come up that you don’t want to discuss or, there’s nuances to [00:50:00] language.
And if
Bill: we’re being judged when it comes to measurement by, getting that key message across. Reiterate, we say this, not this.
Yeah, it
Michelle: might just be a tweak, and they might not even be aware of how they’re coming across because again, not every CEO, but some probably aren’t in, like I work with some in the food industry, food processing.
Sometimes the CEO may be not in the grocery store every week, so they may not see, what consumers are seeing. And so it might just be a little bit of a adjustment to what they would naturally say that just, maybe would benefit from a little coaching or, revising.
Definitely we could all use coaching, myself included. No, we’re perfect, bill. We don’t,
Bill: I love you. That’s why we’re friends.
Michelle: Yeah. We always know the right thing to say. Oh gosh. In every situation. Yeah. I never put my foot in my mouth.
Bill: No.
Michelle: I’ll watch the
Bill: recording of this and be like, I said, what? Oh my [00:51:00] God.
Michelle: Is there anything else? We have just a couple minutes left. I dunno if there’s anything else you wanna leave us with or
Bill: I’ve only had one cup of coffee today, so it’s a, it, I curtailed my usually highly caffeinated energy here. I think it’s timing, with pr the basics still matter.
No matter how the world changes AI or otherwise. What’s a good hook for the journalist? What’s going to get the clicks? What’s going to get the views? And then brands need to retrofit their campaign, whether it’s B2B, B2C, a hybrid. What’s a compelling story? And if you have that, you can win. But it’s gotta be more compelling than the other person’s story.
We don’t operate in a silo like that. It’s a earned media. The attention for the consumer in general with advertising, [00:52:00] pr, social, it’s a competition.
Michelle: Yes. Yeah. Can’t just show up. And again, I would say you can’t just zip in and out of, with your PR and comms efforts, you have to figure out how to keep it going.
And, it’s not only about product announcements, obviously. It’s about, it is about thought leadership, it’s about building trust. It’s about staying out there with stories and content and all of that.
Bill: Yes. Staying out there, I made the fitness analogy before. Are you going on vacation next week?
You don’t Go to the gym today and hope that you’ll be ready. Bye. It’s a long-term play. Marketing is a long-term play, not just pr.
Michelle: That’s right. Yeah. It all is really, I think anything worth doing often is, and our society doesn’t want that though. They want it, they wanna get it.
They don’t want,
Bill: they want a lot our ticket and that’s why people buy every week.
Michelle: Yeah. But that’s just, we just know, [00:53:00] we know that’s not how it works. And we hope we are educating people to stay with it, be consistent. Try things, see what works, try more things, do more of what works, I know that’s 1 0 1,
Bill: but it’s, and I’ll leave it with this.
For those that disagree or have questions, you and I are open books on this.
That’s true.
Bill: To borrow a phrase from the kids slide into our dms. I tell friends of brands, so I don’t wanna work with because they’re friends. Send me the proposals you’re getting. I’ll tell you if I think it’s.
On point or if it’s, oh wow. So ask us, if not us trying to sell you on working with us, I would rather a brand have a great campaign with somebody else. Or not do PR versus be burned by a bad program that was filled with promises that I know won’t come true.
Michelle: Yes. And yeah, that, and unfortunately it happens and everybody [00:54:00] knows that it happens.
So yes, feel free to call on us if you have questions or you want us to look at anything. We are more than happy to do that because we love what we do. We love pr.
Bill: Genuinely. Listen this job is not easy. You’ve gotta really enjoy it to keep doing it.
Michelle: Yeah. Absolutely. I wanna thank you so much for spending time with me.
I know you are a busy fellow and I just appreciate you so much and I hope everybody took away some things today. And please do get in touch if you have questions. I’m sure we’d love to hear from you and thank you everybody. And I’ll be back July 17th and I will post more about that soon.
So thanks so much.
Bill: Thank you,
Michelle: Michelle.
Bill: Bye.
