What does the future of work look like for public relations and communications professionals?
We hear a lot about AI, analytics, and other technology-based skills – but what if it’s softer skills, like listening, presenting, collaboration, curiosity, and engagement, that help candidates stand out?
My guest, Kristina Markos, M.L.S., an associate professor of communications at Lasell University, joins me to discuss how interpersonal qualities matter for communicators.
Markos says to expect a strong emphasis on speaking up confidently when something isn’t clear, on appreciating the value of an intergenerational workforce, and on approaching new industries with curiosity about their histories, norms, and unwritten rules.
Show summary:
In this episode of PR Explored, host Michelle Garrett interviews Kristina Markos, an associate professor and co-founder of Gens Spark Solutions. They discuss the significance of soft skills such as listening, presenting, collaboration, and curiosity in public relations. Kristina shares her varied background in agency work and academia, emphasizing the transition needs between generations in the workplace. They touch on the importance of effective presentation skills, the necessity of asking questions, and the impact of AI on communication roles. The episode highlights the evolving landscape of PR and the exciting opportunities for emerging professionals in the field.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:50 Guest Background and Experience
02:03 Importance of Soft Skills in PR
03:28 Predictions and Essential Skills
05:04 Teaching Communication Skills
09:42 Presentation Skills and Their Importance
15:38 Collaboration and Intergenerational Communication
30:37 The Impact of Short Attention Spans
31:15 The Importance of Asking Questions
32:36 PR Professionals and Journalism Training
36:32 Understanding Organizational Dynamics
43:08 The Role of Writing in PR
49:52 Listening and Perspective Taking
53:47 The Exciting Future of PR
58:06 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Show notes:
Kristina Markos on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinamarkos/
GenSpark Solutions: https://www.thinknovl.com/genspark
PR Club Prediction Post with Kristina’s thoughts that sparked the idea for the topic: https://prclub.org/tips-from-the-board-its-prediction-time/
Full transcript:
PR_ On the Hiring Horizon – Soft Skills That Matter
Michelle Garrett: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of PR Explored. Pr. Explored is the PR podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations. I’m your host, Michelle Garrett, a PR consultant and writer, and my guest today is Kristina Markos. Welcome, Kristina.
Kristina Markos: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Michelle Garrett: Yay.
I’m so glad you’re here. we’re gonna be talking about soft skills, and why they’re important in a PR career. But first I would love for you to tell us a little bit about you and your background and just anything you would like to share. And I will put a few links in here while you’re, telling us about yourself so that people can follow you on LinkedIn and, and see, look at your work.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, that’d be great. so I’m Kristina Markos. I’m an associate professor and also the chair of the graduate program in communications at LaSalle and Newton Mass. And I’m also the co-founder of Gens Spark [00:01:00] Solutions, which is a consultancy that is targeted mostly in communications departments or agencies, to onboard the next gen of communicators and also train, Managers or higher ups on how to work out intergenerational differences because things have changed so much and there really needs to be a third party involved. I’m an agency person. I’ve only really worked in agencies prior to becoming a professor. and I’ve worked in Miami, Florida. I’ve worked in Chicago.
I had my own shop for a little bit, and then I’ve been out here in Boston. so my experience really runs the coasts and from the Midwest and, agency versus higher ed. So I’m all over the place with, with it.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, you mentioned before we started that you’re from Cleveland originally?
Yes,
originally.
Michelle Garrett: And I’m in Columbus, so Ohio.
Kristina Markos: Oh yeah.
Michelle Garrett: I lo yeah. I love Cleveland. So I’m, I, love to hear that. [00:02:00] yeah. so I saw something that you wrote. Which kind of started me thinking about this. and I feel like, obviously there’s a lot of emphasis on technology and AI and analytics and yada Sure. Okay. But. I think when we’re, talking about day-to-day, work, I feel like the, interpersonal skills and the softer skills are. Just as important if really not more important. Because if you can’t get along at work and collaborate and you’re not gonna be able to really use your technology skills.
So I think that’s, what we’re talking about today.
Kristina Markos: A hundred percent.
Michelle Garrett: let’s talk a little bit more about, [00:03:00] What, you, made some predictions, and I was, I take that with a grain of salt as far as when people ask me for a prediction. Yeah. It’s who knows?
Like we really don’t,
Kristina Markos: yeah.
Michelle Garrett: How do we know? How can we know? But you did have some things, to, say, and I’ll put, I’ll put a question up here for us to, chat about. In your predictions. you talked about, how skills like listening, presenting, collaboration, curiosity, engagement, how does that make a difference for candidates?
Because I think, obviously a lot of people are looking for work right now, so how does that help them? What, why do you think those are important?
Kristina Markos: Yeah, so I love that you say you take predictions with a grain of salt. ’cause it’s funny, the blog that you’re re referring to was, I’m on the board of directors for the PR club here in New England, which is like a PR essay, but it we’re called the PR [00:04:00] Club.
and I was very careful to not. Step on the toes of what’s gonna hit the industry, because we’re in a time of transition in my, thought. but one thing that will never go outta style or always be true is that if you’re a communications person, if you’re studying communications, you work in the field, you have to be a good communicator, right?
And I will read resumes sometimes, like for my students or even if I’m hiring, at my consultancy or if a professor wants to work with us. And one of the soft skills people lead with sometimes is a, skilled communicator. Okay. And in my head I’m like, what does that mean? So underneath that, I would ask.
Can you listen well, can you listen to instructions? Can you follow instructions? Can you pick up nuance of maybe a culture of a group of people or how leadership, hints at what they want done? Are you able to pick up on nonverbal cues? [00:05:00] Do you have curiosity about the work that you’re doing? one thing about PR that I always try to stress to my students is you’re, learning public relations, how to do the craft, but you also have to learn an industry, right?
So if you’re a PR person in finance, you have to learn a finance industry. If you’re a PR person in law, you have to learn legal. so you have to be curious about an industry, what it stands for, its history, how it makes an impact, and those are the soft skills that you can develop if you really pay attention to it.
And you read, books about being an effective communicator or you practice with your friends or your family. But if not, you are going to quickly probably deny yourself a promotion or deny yourself a position. because I believe they’re that important.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, no, and I see this in action.
I, again, we were chatting a little bit beforehand and I was in a meeting with a, someone brought their intern, a client brought their intern, and [00:06:00] they yawned openly during. During the meeting, just a big old, and you can’t just, it’s just subtle things like that.
Yeah. obviously it’s, that’s not the end of the world, but it’s just that kind of, I don’t know. It’s, a, it’s just a lack of understanding how that appears when you do that kind of thing. And, Again, like working with young people and also, as a mother of a couple of young, younger people, I see how it’s just a different attitude and they honestly don’t understand.
Sometimes they, they don’t even know that this could be problematic, I think.
Kristina Markos: Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. I think also too, This, next sector that’s coming up. And even the ones that are in their first couple years of their job, or even grad school, they’re in the algorithm space, right?
Where everything that they’re scrolling and clicking on and reading [00:07:00] maps to what they’re already interested in and what they believe. So before that, like I went to school, I was. In high school, college, grad school before the Alga algorithms took over and you had to seek out information, right? there was Facebook, there was Twitter.
Of course I’m, I’m in my forties, but it wasn’t like how it is now where every perspective that you have is echoed back to you. So I think for young people particularly, it’s important that we force them at the undergraduate level, or even in their internship or even their first couple years at the job, to learn how to take perspectives.
like I said, they’re learning an industry on top of their communications craft. And that, part of it often gets lost for them, and they’re like, wait a minute. I, I thought public relations was unboxing on Twitter. I’m sorry, not Twitter unboxing on TikTok, or opening PR packages.
And, the first six weeks of my entry level PR course, I have to say [00:08:00] that’s not what this is. And, and I think that portion of perspective taking and thinking of storylines and what your audience might think about a topic or a brand is it really has to be taught.
And then once they learn that for pr, often they can translate into interpersonal stuff, which is cool. PR is a really cool field. if you’re struggling with learning interpersonal communication.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, I think, it’s, really important because obviously we’re building relationships, right?
We’re building relationships with our coworkers, our clients, and also with, the media, with industry analysts. Whatever industry you’re in, there’s probably different audiences that you have to, Build relationships with, and it’s just, it’s always gonna be part of public relations regardless of, any technology that may enter into the picture.
I feel like this is what we’ve maybe lost sight of just a little [00:09:00] bit. the tech has taken. the spotlight over the softer skills. Yeah. And I feel like in my opinion, the softer skills have always, made a huge difference because again, if, you’re not able to collaborate and get along and, I don’t know how anyone is going to, find, keep, hold a job, given that it’s very competitive these days as well.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, it is. it is. It’s not easy right now.
Michelle Garrett: No. So I think these kind of things, and it might, and these are things again, you might, it might not be something that somebody, it even occurs to them, That this is something that might help them stand out. I. Let’s talk about, presentation skills.
I feel like when I went to school, which of course, was not yesterday, I don’t know that we had as much emphasis on this, but I feel like. It’s very important because you need to be [00:10:00] able to stand up in a meeting and talk about, your work and maybe you need to give presentations at an industry event or what have you.
So let’s talk a little bit about this and I’d love to hear, I. How you’re, if, you’re giving students experience with this, and then, why, is it important? But let’s talk about both those things.
Kristina Markos: Yeah. we absolutely do and almost every university that I’ve been at, I’m at Lasal.
I was an adjunct at LaSalle for a while. Now I’m there full time. and we have a connected learning philosophy where everything that we do, we have to tie back to what industry requires. So we’re lucky, our students are lucky. parents, if there’s anyone here thinking of where to send your, child, I would consider LaSalle just simply because we do have that connected learning philosophy.
But even beyond LaSalle, every other school I’ve been at or worked with does tend to focus on presentation nowadays. One thing I will say though is that. [00:11:00] We know the employers want that. We know clients want that. We know that’s how you win business, right? Or even if you’re asking for promotion, oftentimes you’re gonna have to present your case like, I did this, I led this.
This is what it yielded. so presentation skills are gonna be with you throughout your career. However, there’s, with the younger folks, they’re very used to like voice to text. Or just putting stuff through on a Slack channel, or typing things out. I, it’s very rare that they can imagine that they’re gonna have to get up and explain the value of a campaign or their work, or even if they’re in an agency to try to, win a client over.
I don’t think that they can really envision it until they’re in. That moment. But I think it’s very important to be able to present because otherwise, how do you explain your unique value or the creativity that your agency or your team brings to the table? And how do you win business otherwise?
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, [00:12:00] no, and, answering questions on your feet sometimes. You don’t always know what people are gonna ask. And obviously, when you work, in media relations, you have to prep clients for media interviews and we don’t always know what the reporters are gonna ask.
Yeah. So it’s a similar, I don’t know, skill, is be able to think on your feet and respond and also know like when to stop talking when you’re saying too much, when you’re just talking to fill the void or what have you. So I think that’s, only something you can get good at through practicing practice.
Makes. Perfect. I know that sounds, But, and all, we’ve heard that a million times, but it’s really true and I feel like if you’re giving the students that opportunity and maybe they’re getting it in an internship or something that’s really gonna help, them stand out and help them hone those skills.
Kristina Markos: I actually did a really cool, workshop, I guess experience [00:13:00] based lesson, whatever you wanna call it, where I give students in my 200 level PR class. So these are sophomores, this is After they’ve learned how to do basic media writing, then they come to me. So they don’t have too much experience.
But, I will give them, let’s say a brand that’s, and I, we did this with Crocs when they came out with the m and ms type croc. This was fairly recently. And, I did this thing of okay, if you are trying to get a parent interested in these crocs versus a preteen, right? So same product, same message, same campaign.
How do you reach them and what do you say, right? And that. Stumps them. It really does, because that’s that perspective taking piece of it’s the same thing, right? And I go, and you’re not selling it. ’cause this isn’t an ad, you’re not in advertising. Yeah. But what do you say to get the buzz going?
To get people interested, because there’s two different demographics. You’re gonna have the pre-teen kid who’s these are really cool. I want these m and m Crocs. I’m gonna go ask my parents if I can put ’em on my [00:14:00] Christmas list or holiday list. Then you have the other, you have parents where maybe this shows up in their feed or.
They read, news coverage of a top 10 list of things to get their kids for the holidays. Two different messages, and you’re gonna pitch ’em totally different ways and you’re gonna have different content and different channels. And so when I start to push that on my students, like in a class, in a thought exercise of You in this field will be required to think about how you’re gonna take the same story and translate it and tell different parts of the story depending on who you’re trying to hit. And, that exercise alone I think is invaluable. And I think it does help them with presentation skills. It helps ’em think about their audiences, it helps ’em be better PR people.
so I plan to continue that type of workshopping, for as, long as it’s effective.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. and they have to, do they have to get up and present to, did you say that?
Kristina Markos: No, I just put ’em on the spot, which they might not like, I’ll just say, so what do you think? [00:15:00] And if they stare at me, then I’ll be like, I’m gonna stay with you.
I’m like, I don’t usually let them off the hook, and then I’ll move on to another person and another person. And usually at the end of that, I’ll say, you’ll see how you three people or four people, for example, if I have a smaller set, you all saw the same challenge and approached it differently. I go that’s communications and that’s, that’s the field.
Like you’re gonna have a client, you’re gonna have a story. Everyone sees a different part of it as being valuable or interesting. And then on top of it, you have to dissect how your audience interprets it. But you can’t like lecture through that, right? You can’t like say, read this chapter on it. You have to actually have them.
Feel it.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, no, that’s great. I love that because it, yeah, I, feel like we just, assume that everybody knows how to do Everything, and they just And then, and they don’t, if you just don’t have the experience, and again, this generation thinks differently and approach things a lot differently.
And I think that’s, again, I feel like there should be a little bit of give and take on [00:16:00] both sides because they need to adapt a little bit. Maybe for a boss that’s of another generation, and then the boss also has to be like, they bring these things to the table and maybe we can, there are other things, we can work on.
So I think that’s great that you do that with your, with your clients through your firm. That’s what you do.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, so Jen Spark, it’s funny, the reason, that Rachel, who’s my professor friend, and I, we launched this, is that we were seeing consistent feedback on internship forms, from the internship site supervisors.
So we, she and I specifically, when we were working together, we’re very cognizant of teaching students how to. Have portfolios that were, that had tangible real products that they could show to an internship site or a job. like I made a press release, I did a competitive audit. things that they could hand in.
But so the work, we never got complaints on work. Like I never heard really, very, rarely, very select [00:17:00] cases. I very rarely heard from an internship site. this student couldn’t perform the work. But I did hear inappropriate during meetings. Asks questions that are not appropriate for an intern.
Like for example, I had a student ask, their manager why they didn’t have an, expense account. Like, why they, themselves didn’t, and and so I asked the student like, where did you even come up with this? Like, where did you. Like, where did you hear of interns getting expense accounts? And she’s I don’t know, I just, I know, people in certain industries get one and I was just wondering where my Amex was and, and we heard that over and over again.
So it just got to the point where Rachel and I did a lot of research. We did a lot of interviewing about what the actual problems are, bridging gap communications gaps between the generations. And so yeah, that’s how our consulting practice was born.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, no, I think that’s, that could be very, helpful because, there’s [00:18:00]
Kristina Markos: just a,
gap there.
I don’t know. it’s, and I love, I have a good story about this. There is a meme going around that, is very popular with young people. I’ve seen my students share it. I’ve, even seen it on LinkedIn where it says, somebody’s making like a rotten face and it’s the face you make when somebody makes double your salary and can’t, turn a word doc into a PDF.
Okay, so I brought, I, I do this presentation, I do this workshop, and I’ll bring that up and I’ll say to the young people in the room, have you ever felt like this? And they’re like, yeah. oh, I totally resonate with that. I get that. I, I have to do all this tech stuff at my job and, somebody’s making twice, three times my salary.
So I’ll say, so then I’ll pick up another slide and show what it was like for a woman in the boomer generation or older Gen X when they were coming outta school, and how hard it was and how little money they made, or, sexism in the workplace or fax [00:19:00] machines or, all these issues that I’m not saying are completely gone, but just like a harder lifestyle, right?
And I said, maybe they earned that double salary and, the perspectives start to change a little bit. Like, there’s some softening, there’s some, empathy, I guess when you start flipping it that way.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, I feel like sometimes I sense a, a lack of kind of, I don’t know if it’s respect or just they, I don’t think they, they totally are, they’re just thinking about it from their own perspective.
So when you can show them maybe yeah, what somebody went through to get where they’re at, maybe they will have a think a little bit differently about it. So that’s good.
Kristina Markos: Yeah. And on their side, I love what Gen Z is doing about pushing back against hustle culture. I wish I’m an older millennial.
I wish we had that, we had toxic grinding in the agency days, like in the early two thousands. Mid two thousands when I came out, 12 hour, 13 [00:20:00] hour days. your manager texting you at 7:00 PM I remember. Gosh, I remember I was in my first trimester with my first son and on a business trip and just trying not to let anybody know that I was expecting a child or that I was feeling nauseated.
’cause it was just like not a thing you spoke about.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Kristina Markos: And that has changed. and I, do, I love that about Gen Z. They are sticking up for themselves in terms of health, in terms of mental health.
and their, and I think that’s great too. So I think there’s a lot to be learned on both sides.
Michelle Garrett: Oh yeah. No, I definitely remember the day when I had to keep it a secret that I had a
A baby, Yeah. because I, there was, an occasion when I, somebody that I was gonna hire me, found out I had, I had an in-house. like sitter for my son, but I, they didn’t think that was good enough.
They didn’t like, didn’t want the baby in the house. if in case it made noise, I’m like, oh my gosh. Like now you have your [00:21:00] baby on your lap. I know. So thank goodness, it’s, yeah. That’s a good thing.
Kristina Markos: they really good.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And I remember the, 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Agency days, so that was not like fun.
Kristina Markos: No. No, it wasn’t. But we made it. We made it. That’s why we’re doing a podcast.
Michelle Garrett: and that’s,
Kristina Markos: you have stories as well.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. That’s why you get paid.
Bucks, I don’t know. anyway, so I. Kind of on this note, I think this dovetails nicely. It’s like the ability to collaborate, and obviously a lot of people are working remotely now more, much more.
I wish that would’ve been a thing when I was younger, is that the ability to even work remotely a day a week or something would’ve been great and you had to really fight for that, back then. But, But yeah, now you’re either remote or maybe you’re in the office or a hybrid model or something like that.
You still have to be able to work with other [00:22:00] people. If you’re just trying to do everything on your own and go rogue or just, you can’t, that doesn’t really work very well.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, and I think communications is in such a cool spot. I was actually telling my students I, am teaching a group of seniors right now who are graduating in May, and I told ’em, I’m like.
You are at this, time period where, it’s not siloed into like you are a news reporter, you are an advertiser, you are the, people can just create content, they can work with influencers, they can do brand building. You can kinda switch in and out of comm Fields now easier than even, five years ago.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Kristina Markos: and we’re teaching to that at LaSalle, we’re, teaching RPR students design skills, We’re teaching them analytics skills. We’re teaching our journalism students how to. maybe think about crisis comms, so we’re, doing that at LaSalle, we’re intermingling these skill sets.
but with that, I would say collaboration is even more [00:23:00] important, right? Because maybe you have a colleague that came out 10 years ago and is really, in the trenches with, crisis comms and maybe you’ve just touched it. So you should know what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, and be able to raise your hand.
I think one of the predictions I said in my. Blog that you were talking about earlier, it’s something to the effect of being able to speak up. and I think, that’s a skill to be learned, that it is okay to say, I don’t really understand this. I need more clarity around the goals. What are the expectations for me?
Who could I shadow about this said issue? and I think a lot of younger people, they’ve always, regardless, gen Z or not, younger people always feel. Insecure about speaking up. So that’s the first step to collaboration for me is, speaking up and asking really good questions to, to lead to a more effective workspace.
Michelle Garrett: and I feel and may, I don’t know if you’ve experienced [00:24:00] this, but I feel like in communications, marketing, pr, whatever role you’re in, a lot of times there’s a little bit of, ter territorialism. and I, I guess I, I understand it, but also I feel like we could also get so much further, all of us, if we amplified each other’s work, leverage each other’s work.
Sometimes, PR creates content. Sometimes the content team creates it and PR promotes it sometimes. And obviously social is in all of those. plays in all of those realms. I just feel like we could get so much more out of it if we understood a little bit more about, what each team is good at and how it works with what your team is doing.
And there just be a more open-minded, approach to it because the silos are really difficult. And I see that, [00:25:00] I see that in my work and I know that I’ve talked to a lot of people who, are in-house and experience it too.
Kristina Markos: yeah. And I wonder how long that’s gonna go on, because I’m seeing what’s happening at the higher ed level, where in a lot of comm departments we’re saying, you want versatile communicators, right?
Because, I had, I have two former students who, they’re more like my younger sisters now, we’re very close. But they, use their comm degree to wanna go into policy or, make some big sweeping changes in government. ’cause they’re very, they’re activist focused. They’re, that way.
Both, of these young women. and they’re doing it. And, one one’s in grad school. One’s thinking about grad school, that student, that person, that professional is gonna have to be on social media. They’re gonna have to be dealing with the press, they’re gonna have to do media training, they’re gonna have to do all of it, and they’re probably gonna also have to do marketing, to, affect change and to get these conversations going that, that are so important on a [00:26:00] national level. and so I, wonder, and this is, I don’t know the answer to this, but I, do wonder. What comm is gonna look like because the silos are doing this anyway, and people are bopping in and weaving it out anyway.
so I’d love to see, in 10 years we should revisit this and see how people ended up if they stayed siloed or, didn’t.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. and I, I have friends that are, in the job market and they say the titles are also reflective of what you were just saying. And they’re all over the place, the title might be, PR manager, but you’re.
Expected to do all these things that traditionally maybe a PR manager wouldn’t do, or
Kristina Markos: Right.
Michelle Garrett: I work with a lot of like companies in the maybe 500 to a thousand employee range, and there might be one person being, playing a marketing director role. And so they’re tasked with doing all these things and maybe they have, bring in outside help.
But it’s a lot, it’s, a lot is [00:27:00] expected and it’s not very clear always what the. The title actually means, right? So what are the job duties? And I think if you’re looking, yes, the market is tight right now, but I still think you should be very clear and ask those questions about, what exactly you are charged with, overseeing and what are you responsible for?
Kristina Markos: Yeah. Or how it will evolve. I tell my students all the time, five years is nothing. It sounds like a lot to you. ’cause if you’re 20 years old and you, they’re thinking five years ago they didn’t drive right. But when you’re 22. In 27, that goes by quick and you can, ask your managers and stuff like, where will I be in five years?
How do I evolve my skillset? What part of this role, do you see the most opportunity for someone with, young person energy or new, fresh ideas? You you, absolutely should speak up. That’s, without a shadow of a doubt, in my opinion.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. Yeah. And I think sometimes though, I, what I see with, [00:28:00] younger pros is that they’re just, they’re the confidence, it’s not quite there yet.
the, feeling like it’s okay to speak up and ask questions and add, offer ideas or, give or whatever. I think what you’re saying is that they should try to have that confidence and feel like, that they should be speaking up.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, I am. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: But maybe with a filter.
Kristina Markos: Maybe. Yes. Yes. Maybe
Michelle Garrett: not asking about expense accounts on day one, maybe.
Kristina Markos: Oh my gosh.
Michelle Garrett: That’s really, that is, that’s
Kristina Markos: it. It was, it’s cute, right? But it’s also for me, it, gave me pause to think about what we do at the higher ed level need to be teaching. we, do, and I’m a mom too. I’m a mom of three boys. and they’re gen alpha. So they’re, coming up, right?
They’re coming up right behind these guys. But yeah, once my boys are [00:29:00] outta, outta here at 18, they really, their professors are really the ones if they go to college, that mold them. hearing from employers at the level that I was able to, hear from them and helping students navigate that process and even what Rachel and I see with our con our clients like recruiting has.
It has different strategies for younger people. what companies are looking for a lot of times is, can I put you in a room with higher ups or clients and, feel confident that you’ll be able to professionally engage in a conversation, right? so yeah, things, are changing.
It’s, neat to see both sides of it. I really enjoy. Seeing how this stuff is shaken out.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, and I wanted to say too, if anyone has questions, please feel free to ask. Christine is happy to answer and we’ll, we’d love to address whatever questions you might have. speaking of questions, the next question is about [00:30:00] asking questions.
And you alluded to this a few minutes ago. clarifying by asking questions because again, sometimes I think people are afraid to speak up. They’re afraid to ask. I think it, they fear that it makes them look like. Not knowledgeable, not, smart or I, whatever. But I, feel like it’s vital and I feel like asking questions is actually a little bit of a superpower sometimes, because people don’t wanna ask.
Yeah. And honestly, how in the world are you ever gonna, learn or understand more if you don’t ask questions?
Kristina Markos: So it’s interesting, people’s intention spans are also shorter. So I think they miss people. even me, all of us, all of our in touch and spans are shorter. we get things in sound bites.
We get, we click through things on headlines. We just want move, move, You have six tabs open at one time. Your email’s going off, your phone’s going off. [00:31:00] People are like this, right? All the time.
I think people have more questions now than ever because we’re passively listening just because of the nature of how quick everything moves and how our attention is, always fractured.
so I think that’s what’s causing a lot of people being afraid of miss, of answering que or asking questions. Excuse me. It’s did I miss that? Did somebody else miss that? I think it’s ’cause we’re passive listening and we’re not really engaging a lot fully. And I see that in my classes.
I see that in business meetings. I’m sure you see it too. we all have fractured attention spans and we have browsers open and tabs open and phones chiming. so yeah, I don’t know if they’re afraid to ask questions. There’s more or less that I think everybody’s in a perpetual state of missing some information and just
Relying that somebody else maybe picked it up. I would say it’s to just own that. I would never feel a certain way about a colleague or a candidate or a [00:32:00] new hire if they were like, I missed this portion of the conversation.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Kristina Markos: Or you said X. Can we recap YI would never anticipate that someone would find that odd.
They’d probably find it assertive.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. I, it’s focus, right? you have to learn how to focus. that is something I think we all need to work on. And secondly, yeah, I think, if you, sometimes, even if you’re listening And engaged, paying attention, you have to hear it more than once.
Yeah. Or you have to hear it and then read it. So maybe there’s a recap after the meeting of what was, or the class or whatever it is. So you have to, Use your resources also to find answers, but I just feel like the, for example, I feel like a lot of times PR is looked at as, PR pros are looked at as order takers.
So write a press release. here’s your, here’s the order, like we’re putting our order in of, and instead of maybe asking well. Is the press [00:33:00] release the right vehicle for this? News or information? They just go off and be like, oh gosh, I gotta write another press release. Not that there’s anything wrong with press releases.
I absolutely do not think that. However, I just feel like, who are we trying to get the message out to? Is this the right vehicle for that? What messages, what are the key messages? Just asking Some key questions. Also measurement, we, there’s a lot of talk about measurement, but there’s not a lot of talk about benchmarking before you start something new to see where we’re here now.
we’re, we wanna get here, we, there has to be some kind of a dialogue or questioning or conversation about. What exactly we are trying to do. So I feel like it’s without that, it’s just like we’re just all rushing around and
Kristina Markos: Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Doing stuff.
Kristina Markos: I think PR pros should absolutely have to take an introductory journalism course at some point, because then you learn how to ask thoughtful questions.
You ask, you’re, you are taught how to [00:34:00] ask questions, and it’s funny to me that we’re so aligned with the media space and some curricula does make you do it, some doesn’t. I feel like every PR person at some point could benefit greatly from, journalistic training in terms of asking questions and trying to read through the lines and clarifying things.
Michelle Garrett: yeah,
Kristina Markos: it would just make us stronger.
Michelle Garrett: and I think some managers frown upon maybe oh, you’re asking too many questions. Why are you asking all those questions? I feel like that you have to be in an environment where that’s encouraged. ’cause I think it’s actually a great thing when somebody asks questions.
’cause it means they are paying attention and they are engaged. They’re thinking, critical thinking is so important. Critical
Kristina Markos: thinking. Yeah.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And I, when I studied pr it was in journalism school, so I have a journalism degree. and so that was, just the way it was where I went to school and I was amazed at how that has changed because
Kids, got a communications degree and they don’t, it’s just, it’s totally different now. Like they don’t even, they look at you like, [00:35:00] like it’s just called different things now. Integrated communications or it’s not called the same things anymore. but yeah. No, I had to write for the student newspaper.
I had to be a journalist for a while. and I think even though I’ve never actually been like a professional journalist at a publication, I feel like that has served. Me, throughout my PR career. ’cause I think like that now. And it is thinking critically. It’s not just taking the information at face value and saying, oh, okay, I’ll go write the press.
It’s more
Kristina Markos: yeah, it’s, it really is, what do people wanna know, Right. what? I’ll go back to my earlier example. What about these Eminem Crocs? Do people wanna know? do they wanna know how they were made? They don’t, and this is where,
Michelle Garrett: yeah.
Kristina Markos: even when I teach my PR course, I’m like, you guys all know what an ad is?
It’s easy to spot an ad, but what you don’t see is PR because it’s the figuring out the puzzle of what’s the piece of the story that your audience wants to hear about that maybe isn’t obvious, right? So that’s, [00:36:00] that is the way that you get there, is by asking really good questions.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, no, I feel pretty passionately about that and I feel like a lot of times, again, people are just like running around and they’re busy, and again, they They don’t even maybe stop to think like why they’re doing something. And that’s why I feel like it’s really important. And again, I’ve had people tell me that, when they did try to ask questions sometimes. their manager or whoever just wasn’t, didn’t think that was necessary, and they just wanted ’em to go do the thing that they were asked to do, which,
Kristina Markos: what’s also interesting too, that, again, I feel like career centers or Professors who are career oriented like I am, what we can do too is explain the art of reading people’s bios in your organization. I know that sounds odd, but you’re, is figuring out intimately, what did somebody study? What did they do? How long have they been at the organization? ’cause sometimes somebody will have a question and they go to the wrong person.
And maybe that’s why they’re getting shut down or the question [00:37:00] isn’t appropriate. They just assume that the manager knows everything ’cause they’re the manager. So I think too, that teaching young folks or new folks or folks that are just onboard to your organization, the art of, okay, here’s like a company roster.
Here’s everybody’s detailed information and what they do and who you go to for certain things. I think that would be really effective in a lot of organizations.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. and I’m gonna put the next question up because I think, you’ve mentioned this a couple times, and I think this is really important too.
just being curious. Yeah. And I remember when I first started, working like, real jobs, looking at the org chart and things like that. Oh, okay. So this person reports to this person and this division is charged with this. And, because we were organized by industries too, yeah.
At a technology company, you might be working with the automotive industry one day and then maybe six months later you’re working with aviation or you’re, working with the [00:38:00] entertainment industry or, so what, what do you need to know about that and then who within your organization?
I like the idea of mentors and I think sometimes that’s hard to find too. It’s like your manager might not be the right mentor, That’s right. I don’t know that’s always the best person to look to for that, but mentorship. Maybe within another department at the company, or maybe within a professional organization like PRSA or something like that.
that’s really helpful.
Kristina Markos: Yeah. And I think too, when you’re looking at a professional, you’re looking at many layers of that professional. So let’s just say, if you’re a woman, maybe you want to. Hear about women’s issues in the workplace. If you are, a PR professional and you wanna get outta media relations, but you really like public affairs, you might want to go to somebody who’s made that switch.
So I think, when you’re looking at yourself as a young, developing professional, or if you manage those folks, you should be asking those questions of them too, of [00:39:00] What part of your personality or your skillset do you wanna invest in? and how can we set you up with materials and learning opportunities and learning and development to grow that, that, that space for you?
I also think too, with curiosity, our field is very bizarre. my husband. My husband is a teacher. He’s a, middle school administrator now, but I remember when we were dating, I, swear for a year, he didn’t know what I, could not explain to him what I did for a living. I was like, I work in the financial industry, mostly in public relations and I, at the time I was creating some, Content. And and he is but for what? you’re not a finance person. It’s he just didn’t, he didn’t, he couldn’t wrap his mind around it. and so I think, yeah, that’s a really important part for PR people to realize is that you are also learning industries and you might be working for 30 years.
You might switch industries, you might work at an agency and work on a beverage client in the morning and
A hospital in the [00:40:00] afternoon, It’s really important to know what you don’t know and not be afraid to find people who do know and to talk to them.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. And sometimes after you’ve, worked in certain industries, you realize, Hey, maybe that’s not for me.
Kristina Markos: Or like that I could not make that interesting if I tried.
Michelle Garrett: That’s, I really have leaned into B2B, I mean in industries even within B2B, but just B2C versus B2B and how that’s different because it’s a different kind of, approach to what you’re saying. ’cause companies are buying in a different way than, your, You’re the public, the consumer. Yeah. So I think it’s, even that, and I, my daughter has a friend, she’s in college and, I was chatting ’cause her friend is studying pr and we were, she was excited because she knew what B2B meant because she follows me and she had seen me. Oh good. That is her professor was like, wow.
you really? Yeah. That’s
Kristina Markos: [00:41:00] impressive. I would be impressed with that.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. So extra
Kristina Markos: points immediately.
Michelle Garrett: But it, but there’s a difference, and so maybe you’re doing a role that you enjoy, but it’s in an industry maybe that you don’t really, it doesn’t resonate with you or something like that.
And those are all things that you’ll learn as you go and that, and again, it’s fine to change roles. It’s fine to try different things. Even like sometimes if you get, and you work for a bigger company, sometimes you can even move within the company and try different, Roles and, responsibilities out and different work in different industries.
And I think it’s really fascinating. ’cause that’s something I didn’t really understand when I went into it either, right? I thought, oh, I just like to write and I think this, will be, oh,
Kristina Markos: I know.
Michelle Garrett: Fun. The
Kristina Markos: writing portion. Oh my gosh, the writing portion. If, you wanted to be a writer, you went into journalism or pr.
it was, that’s what you did. but the other portion is nobody, at least when I went to school, was saying, all right, now. Before you [00:42:00] go to a job, before you go to an agency, you’re gonna look at their client roster and you’re gonna look at the press that client is getting. And this sounds so silly ’cause I can’t imagine today.
anybody needing to explain that to me after 20 years, that’s like breathing now. But I, at the time I was just like, I can write anything. I’m a good writer, so they’re just gonna, to your point about order taking, they’re gonna tell me what we’re gonna write about and it’s gonna be fine.
And that is partly why I became a professor too, is because I was a little disillusioned by how different the field was versus what we, learned in school. I, found it. Very different. and so I didn’t want that to happen to anybody else, and that, that’s why I became a professor truly, was to help close that gap.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. No, and I, I, have a lot of respect for, professors because, we, and they have their work cut out for them,
Kristina Markos: oh, it’s fun. It’s fun. It’s a lot of fun, though.
Michelle Garrett: I think it’d be rewarding, when you find, there’s some students that really, just [00:43:00] lock in and they’re like, They stand out. we were talking about, we just talked about writing. I know this really wasn’t on your list, but for me, in my mind, it’s always been a foundational skill for PR pros. and I know, yes, AI’s out there. I’m really hoping that, students and young professionals. Any professional is not counting on ai, to do their writing for them and their thinking, therefore, ’cause writing is thinking so.
Kristina Markos: for me, my policy and my classes across, whether it be undergraduate or graduate students, they can’t draft, their first drafts in ai. It has to be original thought. They can wordsmith though. They can run it through. Chat GPT and say, what is the tone? Could you make, could you tighten this up?
I’m okay with that. It’s just a tool in that way. And Grammarly is like that too. but no, all of their first drafting has to be original. there are certain things in our [00:44:00] field that AI will never be able to replace, A press conference, a crisis come, an in the moment interview, right?
you and I talking right now, I can’t have chat GPT come out of my mouth. It has to be my, so I, I knew what you wanted to talk about. I had to do some research. I had to think about what stories I wanted to tell, right? When you say about writing is and thinking, I think it’s critical for employers, professors, anybody who’s working with communications professionals, make sure you make them have experiences with the on the fly in the moment.
Comms, and, that comes in, like you said, like presentations that comes in, press, conferences that comes in, having reporters come to your classroom or to, to your job. If I was a communications office, I would bring some reporters in for lunch and be like, okay, these are our clients, or this is, what would you wanna hear from us?
So that, people can have access to that. and, prepare [00:45:00] for it. ’cause AI is not gonna be a crutch for those in the moment situations.
Michelle Garrett: No. And I think when we give up, again, to me, when I sit down to write something, I’m thinking through it, right? I’m working through my thoughts.
’cause I may have a lot of ideas, in my head, but until they’re on paper, I am not getting, I’m really not able to maybe organize or really hone in and just really helps. Me and I think other people as well just collect their thoughts and, get to the point really.
Because again, I feel it’s hard to be put on the spot and, talking is different than writing because it’s, I don’t, it’s hard because I am at heart a writer, so the, verbal communication, it doesn’t always flow like the writing does for me. And, but I do think, obviously the two are related and I feel like, the writing [00:46:00] is important in so many different ways in a PR and comms marketing role.
you’re writing stuff all the time, and I, again, I don’t necessarily think that. you’re always gonna wanna use AI to, create whatever it is that you’re, writing.
Kristina Markos: yeah, it’s just the way I look at it is almost as like an editing tool, but it shouldn’t be a gener a generating thoughts campaigns tool.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah.
Kristina Markos: one thing I think it helps with though is if in a simulation, like a crisis comms simulation, you could say these are the three points that I would like my spokesperson to make. How could that be perceived by audiences? you can talk to it in that way to maybe refine your thoughts.
But again, it’s, it, comes after, in my opinion. you’ve already decided what you wanna do, what you wanna write.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. At least take a pass at it. [00:47:00] The other thing is you’re not gonna grow if you’re not actually doing the work yourself. you’re not really gonna evolve and, be able to, learn and grow in your career.
I don’t know. I just feel like it’s giving over a lot to, you’re giving up a lot when you do that,
Kristina Markos: yeah, and I have a distinct memory of a piece. I wrote a feature story in undergrad and, I misspelled my source’s name and my professor wrote this would’ve been an A, but I’m giving you a d.
Funnily enough, my, my previous name, my maiden name, was nine letters long, and she had actually misspelled my name. The professor did, and you know what? I could have made like a big deal about it. We had a really good relationship and I respected her a lot. But, I was just like, this is, I remember taking that lesson and then years later I misspelled the word obstacle on a subject line.
To the New York [00:48:00] Times and this New York Times reporter found my boss forwarded it to him and he was so mad at me. And I tell my students these stories of then it went back into my head of that D that I got because of misspelling, a source’s name and things like that. So I tell my students though, on a positive part with ai and I tell young people this.
You have no reasons for spelling errors. All of your writing needs to be perfect because it’s here now. there’s that positive part of, all, of that sweating over typos or misspellings or, being reamed out because you, you had a typo. yeah. That’s over. Thank God for, younger people.
Michelle Garrett: Oh man. I. I don’t know. that’s, yeah, no, I, it’s funny when a reporter like claps back for something like that. I always,
Kristina Markos: he should have though. I was, I, and again, all these things, like at the time I remember I went home [00:49:00] and cried. Of course, I was in my twenties.
but also that. In my opinion, I’ve seen this sort of lesson a little bit. Of course, you can’t publish a million things with typos or errors or incorrect grammar, if you’re a comms person. However, because people produce so much content now, I think there’s a little bit more grace for when there is a typo or you know something.
Yeah, whatever then. Then there was even five years ago, I remember it being the biggest deal when we would hire people to give them a writing test and if they didn’t pass it, we couldn’t hire ’em.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. No, I, see what you’re saying there. ’cause I feel like, I, I feel like again, there ought to be, if everything else is good, then that might not be the deciding factor, that might not be fair, Yeah. If that makes sense. let’s talk about listening, because I feel like this is a very important skill. And again, we talked a little bit about [00:50:00] it earlier, but people are just, their minds are all over the map, and I feel like focusing, listening, engaging before you even. decide what questions you wanna ask, hear what the other person is saying and take it in.
And so let’s talk about that.
Kristina Markos: Yeah. So in listening and perspective tanking, this is actually one of the workshops, one of the more popular workshops that Rachel and I offer at Gen Spark. and a lot of it has to do with intergenerational. Expectations. And for the first time ever we have boomers, gen X millennials, and Gen Zs all together in one place.
And the cultural, societal, technological things that we’ve seen change in the last 15 years is, monumental. so perspective taking and thinking about somebody, like I was telling you my earlier example of, okay, maybe somebody can’t. Translate A PDF, but look how hard it was for them when they came outta school.
Or similarly, maybe [00:51:00] a millennial boss is saying, gosh, my, my new employee leaves at five and then shuts their phone off. I can’t reach ’em until the morning. in their era, they were raised to set boundaries, right? Everything that they see is about setting boundaries and knowing your worth and, so you have to be able to listen to somebody and, figure out like what are they seeing?
What is their culture of their generation? how are their belief systems formed? And then work within it, not try to combat it or compete with it. and so again, back to your point, asking really great questions or not taking things personally or, getting outside of your own algorithm is, probably the most effective thing that I could say people could do to be, a productive employee.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah. I, again, it’s, I feel like not only are people. Scattered. It’s also about a desire to hear each other and try to understand what the other person is trying to convey without an [00:52:00] agenda, without your belief system. Maybe getting in the way just at face value listening and then coming back and having a dialogue or asking the questions.
and, it takes respect on both sides. I think so.
Kristina Markos: Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And also too, I think in our field it’s like media outlets do have bias that’s been proved over and over again, right? So maybe as a PR person, maybe you’re working with a reporter from an outlet that you don’t agree with, or, you wouldn’t like the way that they take the story.
but it’s up to you to figure out if your audience maybe does read that outlet or follows that reporter. And you’ve gotta be able to work within that and still get the job done and still do so professionally.
Michelle Garrett: Yes. you can have a, all the beliefs you want in you’re
Outside work, but
Kristina Markos: yeah,
Michelle Garrett: no, some, sometimes they do, they do bleed over a little bit, but I, it’s still the listening part. I feel [00:53:00] like we have to at least try to make our best effort at understanding, what is being asked, and then coming back and maybe asking, intelligent questions about.
Why are we doing this? Or what is the goal and how will we measure and all those things. So, what else, do you think, we’ve talked a lot about intergenerational workforce and how that impacts all of this. What else do you think it’s important, in focusing, on. Younger PR pros and, those just entering the, world of work.
What do you think is important beyond what we’ve talked about so far?
Kristina Markos: I’m gonna end this on a positive note and, this is something that I say a lot to my students. If you read any of the articles I post on LinkedIn or through the PR Club Bog or anything, I think it’s a really exciting time to be in the communications industry.
I [00:54:00] know I came outta school 20 years ago and it was at a Renaissance. It was 2000. Six. And my first job outta school in the industry was, online advertising. And we had an ad server and we were doing online content and, publishing, content just for the sake of publishing content. And then I moved to another.
Firm where they were doing podcasts and webcasts and, all of this kind of stuff was just bubbling. And I was not taught about that at all in school. And I think, that’s not a slam on my institution. It’s just, it was moving so quickly. And I think that, the, learning social media and creating content, it’s been there for a while now.
But now we’re moving into, short form video and everybody has to do short form video. Like reporters have to have short form videos. everybody has to know a little bit of basic design or get really fluent at Canva. results oriented communication. So I like that you keep talking about measurability, putting out a press release and getting one [00:55:00] media hit.
You can’t really just do that anymore if you say, nobody saw this press release. You have to have. Four or five other tactics that you’re gonna get out there to make sure that your message is, populating, in front of people you want it to. So I think right now is a really exciting time to be in the communications fields.
I get sad when I see that parents find it as one of the fields that will be replaced by ai. I think it’s gonna change because of ai but not be replaced. so I would encourage anybody who’s thinking about a field in PR or a career in PR or communication or strategic comm to go for it. especially if they’re a creative critical thinker because it, it’s a really cool time.
We’re changing a lot of stuff and the way that, people work and, it’s fun.
Michelle Garrett: Yeah, I think we’re having a, seeing a renaissance for pr I do comm because the focus on being able to communicate clearly and also not putting your foot in your mouth or speaking it at a turn. Yeah. So we’re critical to that, type of [00:56:00] communication.
And for the C-suite, they really need to be factoring in, The PR council, before they get out there and start opening their mouth and, perhaps, saying, the wrong thing. So I think it’s, I think it’s a really important, role and I think it’s only going to become more vital and more important because, we are communicating more on video and yeah, you are seeing more executives get caught on their feet.
And speaking in the moment. And they have to be able to, to do that. And, we can really help with that. help coach them and help counsel them and all of that. So it’s, actually, I think it’s, a fun, it’s a fun time to be doing what we do and, there’s, always a little stress involved, but yeah.
Kristina Markos: Yeah, it’s true. it is a fun job. You get to make stuff, you get to talk to people, you get to travel a little bit depending on your industry. [00:57:00] You get to go to events. you get to think about stories that are shaping people and their mindsets. it’s a really neat job and, if it was easy then everybody would do it, but it’s, we, it is a little bit of a grind, it’s worth it.
I think. I think it’s still a very viable field. I think that we have, the next generation is coming up and they’re really creative and, They think fast and they think on their feet and
just bridging that gap from classroom to career is, what we’re here to do. And, hopefully we can continue doing that.
Michelle Garrett: It’s never boring.
Kristina Markos: No,
Michelle Garrett: And every day it could be a little different. and again, if you don’t like one industry. Look at another industry. Maybe you like being on call or maybe you would rather not be on call as much. there’s, a fit for everyone. And I would just encourage people to explore and look at the options and, don’t, open up your, yourself to different, opportunities that come your [00:58:00] way and, yeah.
So I think we’re on the same page there,
Kristina Markos: yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we know, we learned two things. We like Ohio and and we think it’s an exciting time to be in PR if, anybody’s still listening. Those are the key takeaways.
Michelle Garrett: I just wanna thank you so much for being here, Kristina. I thought this was a very helpful, and insightful conversation and I hope people will follow you.
I put the links, In the, comments. And, hopefully people follow you on LinkedIn and check out Gens, spark Solutions if they need some help. and yeah. Thank you so much for being here.
Kristina Markos: All right. thank you for having me. And keep on doing what you’re doing. You’re, bringing great conversations to the industry, so we appreciate all the work you do.
Michelle Garrett: Oh, that’s very kind. Thank you so much, and thanks everybody for tuning in, and we’ll see you in a couple of weeks.
Kristina Markos: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye.
About the host: Michelle Garrett is a B2B PR consultant, media relations consultant, and author of B2B PR That Gets Results, an Amazon Best Seller. She helps companies create content, earn media coverage, and position themselves as thought leaders in their industry. Michelle’s articles have been featured by Entrepreneur, Content Marketing Institute, Muck Rack, and Ragan’s PR Daily, among others. She’s a frequent speaker on public relations and content. Michelle has been repeatedly ranked among the top ten most influential PR professionals.
Learn more about Michelle’s freelance PR consulting services here. Book a no-obligation call to talk about your needs here. Buy Michelle’s book here.
