Brand authority – often defined as the perception that a brand is a credible, reliable, and influential expert within its industry – is at the heart of an effective public relations program.
But how can companies ensure they’re successfully adapting their content and PR strategies in the context of both SEO (traditional search) and GEO (AI-driven search)?
How should they audit to determine where they need to focus? What authority signals exist? And why do they matter?
My guest is Amanda Milligan, a consultant and founder of the Brand Authority Club. Brand authority is frequently overlooked and underappreciated, she believes, when in fact it’s often the linchpin that ties an entire strategy together and makes it successful.
Show summary:
In this episode of PR Explored, host Michelle Garrett, a PR consultant, author, and writer, welcomes guest Amanda Milligan to discuss brand authority and its critical role in public relations and marketing.
Amanda shares her background in content, SEO, and brand strategy, emphasizing the importance of holistic marketing efforts.
They delve into how brand authority is measured, identify practical steps to assess it through tools like Reddit, LLMs, and social media, and discuss the intricate relationship between owned and earned media.
The episode also addresses the evolving landscape of SEO and the importance of maintaining continuous engagement to build long-term brand trust and authority.
00:00 Welcome to PR Explored
00:28 Meet Amanda Milligan
01:38 Amanda’s Professional Journey
02:49 The Importance of Brand Authority
03:29 Challenges in Marketing and PR
04:30 Speaking Engagements and Networking
06:37 Brand Authority Club and Community Building
23:15 Defining Brand Authority
26:19 Brand Authority in PR and Communications
30:20 Why Companies Overlook Brand Authority
32:45 Introduction to Reddit Search Tool
33:22 Trust Issues in Online Platforms
35:01 Google’s Shift Towards Reddit
37:20 Using LLMs for Brand Analysis
40:18 Importance of Third-Party Signals
43:28 Tracking Mentions and Backlinks
53:48 Social Media and Content Value
58:32 Owned vs. Earned Media
01:02:41 Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
Show notes:
Brand Authority Club: https://www.brandauthority.club/
Amanda Milligan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandamilligan/
Full transcript:
How to Leverage Brand Authority in Your PR Strategy
Michelle: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to PR Explored. I’m so happy to be back today, with a wonderful guest who I’ll introduce in just a minute. But I just want to, welcome you to PR explored the video podcast where we delve into trends and topics related to public relations. I’m your host, Michelle Garrett, a PR consultant, author and writer, and my guest today is the fabulous Amanda Milligan.
Welcome Amanda.
Amanda: Thanks, Michelle. Thank you so much for having me. I love to talk about all these, PR related topics, even though I’ve never. Specifically worked in pr. It’s so funny how I’ve always been tangential to it. I’ve always been around this field.
Michelle: I think that’s really how, you and I met at through Content Marketing World, through that community and just, I remember our mutual friend Michelle Lynn, telling me, you really need to meet Amanda.
And, boy was she right? Because, it’s [00:01:00] been, I’ve just so enjoyed our friendship over the years and I’ve learned so much from you. And
Amanda: Likewise.
Michelle: Yeah. It’s been, it’s a good thing. and Amanda is a wonderful person in addition to being a very knowledgeable person. please follow Amanda.
I will put her LinkedIn and her site up here in just a second. But I, first, I want, before we get into the topic, which we’re gonna be talking about, brand authority today and pr, I want Amanda to talk a little bit about herself and tell us all the latest and greatest, anything you wanna share with us, Amanda.
Amanda Milligan’s background
Amanda: Sure. thank you again for having me. I have been in the industry and by the industry, like mostly content, SEO and brand for about 14 years now. And most that was agency side. So I’ve worked with all kinds of companies, like people ask me and I’m like, I literally don’t know how to narrow it down.
B2B, B2C, all company sizes from solopreneurs to enterprise. I’ve worked with everybody, [00:02:00] which has been a really interesting experience in terms of understanding the, the trends on all of those different levels. Like you see different things happening from between, SaaS and e-commerce and, startups versus those more established companies.
So it’s been a lot of fun. I’ve also had a few stints, with a very meta job of marketing, agencies, which helped me get like. A little more well-rounded in marketing outside of, I came up in the industry through content to see how content impacted other marketing initiatives because I do think it’s one of those things that fuels a lot of different channels and a lot of different marketing goals.
So that was really insightful too. So a year ago I started, you just shared the link. Thank you. brand Authority Club, which is my consulting business, but also trying to build a community for people who are like-minded [00:03:00] and caring about brand authority, which I know is our topic today. So we’ll get more into that, but who are rallying around this concept of, let’s go back to some of the marketing fundamentals that have been lost over time.
Michelle: I think the, backing up for a second, the marketing and marketing agency may, I think we do a whole hour on that, but
Amanda: yeah, for real. Yeah.
Michelle: That’s an interesting one. ’cause it’s, I’ve had people say to me, wow, that agency does a good, job of marketing itself or doing PR for itself or whatever.
And I’m like, yeah. it’s sometimes it’s like the shoemaker’s child, like they have no marketing or they try to like, they’re too focused on their winning awards and I don’t know.
Amanda: Yeah. And it’s a, I get it ’cause it’s, marketers are a tough audience. We’re, we are probably the most, scrutinizing for good reason, [00:04:00] right?
we know the industry, it’s, we know how all this works and we want authentic communication. And so unless people are really going to invest in that and they’re going to care about that. Yeah. they’re not of the standard, Checkbox marketing stuff’s never gonna work on other marketers for God sake.
it’s just not gonna fly.
Michelle: No, it’s a tough gig. I’ve had a, I’ve had a couple of those over the years myself, so I don’t know. Anyway,
Amanda: yeah, it was, I definitely learned a lot and I appreciated it and it’s will allow me to try other, like I started my own podcast and I was speaking at conferences, so I, absorbed, I learned so much from others in that time period.
I, there was a lot of listening and, just trying to get into the mix of these conversations. So it was very valuable to me personally as well, just to be a part of that kind of like thought [00:05:00] leadership community and Yeah.
Michelle: You were speaking everywhere. I remember that.
Amanda: I was on, yeah, I was on the circuit for a year or two there, and then I’ve, it’s been like a couple years really since I’ve done that stuff.
I just spoke at state of search a couple weeks ago. It’s the first time in, in years that I’ve spoken on a stage, so that was fun. But I had to get back into it. I had to remember what it’s like to, Talk in front of whether it was, 50 people or 500 people. It’s always nerve wracking to me.
Michelle: I find it super nerve wracking. it’s a extroverted introvert. I’m always, you gotta push me out there a little bit. I love the networking at events, but the speaking in front of crowds, I’m like,
Amanda: I know it’s tough. And that, that feeling I get right before, there’s few things that give me that adrenaline rush where I’m just like truly feeling sincerely nervous, which I guess is a good thing.
I guess you’re supposed to [00:06:00] continue to challenge yourself in those ways. But you’re right, the networking, the speaking helps with the networking I’ve found because it gives somebody a reason to walk up to you and have something to say and spark that conversation. Same vice versa. If you see a speaker that you like, you have something to go talk to them about.
But
Michelle: yeah,
Amanda: so in that way it was nice. But I do miss events. I’m gonna try to go to more next year.
Michelle: Yeah, it’s, it’s a lot of work.
Amanda: Yeah, it’s work, it’s money, it’s time, it’s all the things
Michelle: I know. Alright, let’s get into this. I wanna first, today we’re talking about brand authority, which, is Amanda’s probably her, her favorite pet topic.
Authority Fest event
And I also wanna just mention that she hosted a conference, in September called a Authority Fest, right?
Amanda: yes.
Michelle: And I went and it was fabulous. And if she does another one, I would say definitely sign up for that. ’cause the speakers were great, but it was [00:07:00] also just Amanda drew such a great, like you drew such a great group of people, attendees, I thought the community, the networking was really good, even if it was an online event.
And that’s really hard to do that.
Amanda: That was, first of all, I appreciate that. Secondly, that, that was great feedback to get, because that’s how I feel. I’ve been working for myself for a year, And I am very extroverted, so I, it’s easy for me to get a little lonely in my silo, my little corner of the internet.
And so I’m trying to think, just speaking out loud, right now, we have a Slack group, but I think that people, brand Authority Club, has a Slack group. And I think people are just sick of having, there’s so many Slack groups already, and I think there’s a little bit of fatigue there.
So I’m trying to figure out a way to repurpose that into something else that is more like still community based. But tapping into those things that worked in Authority Fest. So I’m actively thinking about this and something, I’ll [00:08:00] probably publish something about this in the next couple weeks of like how this is going to evolve.
But yeah, if you. I want to follow along and join what, these different iterations. sign up for the newsletter. ’cause that’s where I’m gonna share all this stuff. Okay. yeah. ’cause it’s gonna keep evolving. I tried the Slack group. this is so much marketing, isn’t it?
It’s like being okay to try something and if it doesn’t work out, moving on. And
Michelle: yes,
Amanda: I love the Slack group. There have been some really great conversations in there, but I’ve gotten feedback from people that’s I’m just in so many Slack groups, like, how am I supposed to keep up with this? I’m like, that is so fair.
I have 10 on my sidebar. I know. I don’t know. So I’ve just been thinking about it and. I really liked the speakers that I was able to secure for the event they were, and so I’m like, maybe there’s something we can do monthly or quarterly here, where it’s more of a conversation, more of a, yeah.
But anyway, I [00:09:00] stayed tuned.
Michelle: Yeah, no, I thought it was really great and I was really glad that I spent the time, and like I said, I don’t, I knew if it was, if you were organizing it, it would be great, but it really, it, you know how you wanna support people that you know and and trust, but also it really was great.
So it actually exceeded my expectations. so that is not, that doesn’t happen
that does not happen all the time.
Amanda: Music to my ears. Yeah. I’ve never planned an event before. That was my first one and there was a ton of technical difficulties and yet I was so happy with. Yeah, the people I was, so everybody who contributed, who was in there were asking amazing questions.
The speakers had so much interesting stuff to say. But again, it was ’cause these speakers were aligned in the authority side of stuff and all different angles, like talking about why blogging still matters or talking about how to do Reddit marketing, like things that I had questions about.
And that tends to be, that’s the nice [00:10:00] thing when I was marketing to marketers, I was like, at least I know what I questions I have as a marketer. Yeah. So
Michelle: it’s easier, what
Amanda: you
Michelle: have always done as far as my blogs and articles and things like that is just what am I trying to figure out?
And I think I figure if I’m curious, interested that other people will be too. And then you talk to the people that you trust in this space and you know that I think, or you look at what they’ve already said or written or whatever. And that helps inform, What you’re thinking and everything.
So I thought the speakers were really good. Like I said, this isn’t what, this isn’t like my, the core of my work, but it’s important to my work. And that were, there were things that I took away and I’ve always felt like with content marketing and brand authority and, PR needs to, we need to be paying attention to that stuff.
And I feel like a lot of times it is siloed and people aren’t really there are a few people here and there in PR that will, be [00:11:00] experts or specialists in these areas. But I don’t feel like as a profession, we are really very well-rounded in some of these areas. And that’s why I started doing this.
’cause I like to talk about these topics that relate to PR.
Amanda: absolutely. And I think it’s, I don’t know if you’re observing this, but. lots of thoughts about LLMs, but, one of the things that I think is interesting and positive is that it’s almost forcing people to reckon with the silos, because a lot of the LLM focused strategies cannot work unless multiple departments are working together on it.
And that, I think if we can all seize that and See how we can apply it to other areas. ’cause I love that they’re, it’s not just pr, Right. Brand, SEO, they’re all just operating these independent areas and it’s this is not how it’s supposed to be. So if LLMs are demanding people to care about third [00:12:00] party authority signals, they have to care about pr and suddenly, SEO and PR are more connected than they ever have been, or they’re moving in that direction.
So I’m hoping that’s like a trend that lasts.
Michelle: Yes. And let’s get rid of the link builders though. That’s the digital PR term is for me, sometimes synonymous with the link builders. And that’s, I’m glad to see that not being as important. I hope, in my view, I don’t, I feel like it’s not as important now, but I don’t know.
Amanda: don’t think it is either. I think that, I think a lot of this is, I’m just getting into it now, so I’m sorry. That’s okay. But, my, my issue with everything is, there was an article, lemme see if I can find it. I can, there was an article in Intelligencer, like in July. Okay. And it was about, it was called like the traffic, the media traffic apocalypse.
Michelle: Okay.
Amanda: Did you see this article? It was, [00:13:00]
Michelle: was it Casey Newton? I
Amanda: don’t remember. Hold on, let me. It was, to me extremely validating. Okay. It was Charlotte Klein and it was basically, it had lead editors at some of the country’s biggest publications, essentially acknowledging the situation that they’re in.
’cause publisher, the publishing, ar, arena has dealt with its own ramifications of, AI overviews and everything. They’ve been, they’ve taken a massive awesome, they’ve taken a massive hit,
Michelle: put it in here.
Amanda: And I highly recommend everybody check this article out. And there’s basically an editor of the New York Times, I’m paraphrasing here, it’s not exactly, a direct quote, but these editors basically saying yeah, we should have made more direct lines to our audience.
Like we [00:14:00] should have set up. whatever, what programs, email it, whatever it was to connect with our audience. But we were not forced to reckon with that. And it was this feeling that I’ve had for years of there, marketers know, PR folks know that there is like a different layer of just appealing to your audience that maybe is not as easy to monetize or as easy to measure.
But that is critical. However, we weren’t being held to that as part of our success metrics and thus we could not prioritize it. Even if we, if marketing departments knew that it was important, if it wasn’t driving traffic, then they couldn’t get justification for it. And I think links fell in that category.
Links you could measure. Okay. And you know what I’m saying? So yes, brand mentions, people knew that mattered. [00:15:00] But you couldn’t as directly tie the impact to revenue. At least with links you could see, oh, okay. Like the domain authority is going up. And that made people excited. And it was literally just, if you had the metrics, it was easier to get the buy-in for it.
And that’s the other thing that I’m hoping that this LLM craze is doing because there all of a sudden visibility is the hip thing to talk about when that’s always mattered. And now it’s getting, its, its flowers and I’m like, finally, but it’s still hard to measure. But now because LLM are trendy, it’s being like people are okay with it not being as and now tools are like figuring out better ways to measure it.
Yeah. But it’s so interesting to me and you just saying the backlink thing because really what was the point of backlink. It was always to get, it was the brand mentions, but from the [00:16:00] SEO side, it was, oh, but that’s going, that’s, you’re telling Google this site is authoritative and so your rankings will increase.
That’s the same like brand mentions all this stuff. it’s just creating authoritative stuff and getting mentioned. That has always been the core of it. But yeah, it’s just, it’s interesting to see how things are evolving,
Michelle: but it used to just drive us crazy on the PR side when, the client would, you insist on a link and then you’d have to go back if they didn’t put one in to the media outlet and they’d be, it just, it was a terrible situation because, we couldn’t win because nobody was, nobody liked it.
Amanda: Yeah.
Michelle: Liked it. but yeah, I just, I always felt like it was kinda like, yeah, who cares about that? ’cause like they’re gonna go, if the story’s interesting, they’re gonna go look at your website anyway, Or I don’t know. Or at some point it might take 20, touches or whatever for that.
But it’s all, that’s the thing about it. It’s hard [00:17:00] when you say, how do you measure pr? And I was like, yeah, I don’t know. it’s a tough, question. You can’t measure it in a vacuum ’cause it’s, there’s all these other things contributing to whether or not somebody goes and. Looks at your side.
Or buys from you or whatever. So I, that’s, I think I, I like this too that, that it’s all kind of forcing, a change, but not everybody is there yet. No. That’s something that’s frustrating. Yeah, because I just was on a call with a prospective client and they had somebody ex some expert in the meeting, and they were like asking me about how to measure, like, how, and I’m like, I don’t, the things they were asking about were, I was, I’m like, does that, yeah.
Is that still important? I don’t know.
Amanda: no, you’re right. And that’s why I, got this impulse. I’m like, I just wanna talk to other marketers who feel the same way that I do, because I needed to almost validate for myself that this was a possibility. Because honestly at this point in my career, I was like, I don’t really wanna work for companies that [00:18:00] don’t.
Get it at that level.
Michelle: Correct.
Amanda: And I don’t, I just don’t, it’s too exhausting and I don’t like being commoditized as a marketer to be like, if you don’t hit these metrics, even though I know I’m doing good work and I know I’m building authority for a brand, it was just getting very exhausting.
But, I actually got to the final round of interviews at a job, a while back and they were okay, we like you. It’s down between you and one other person, but can you explain how you would track A, B, C, D, and E? and without going into a ton of detail, it’s I actually don’t think you need to get that granular with tracking for those specific things.
I think that those metrics are used for understanding directionality if you’re doing the right things. But I wouldn’t get so caught up in, making sure that. [00:19:00] You’re able to measure them all. And I did. I was like, I knew when I sent that back, I’m like, I’m not gonna get this job. I was like, but I had to be honest with myself and be like, I don’t wanna do that.
I’m not interested in spending half of my time.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: Trying to map every single little thing that I do.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: Revenue. I’m like, yeah. Obviously metrics matter. Obviously you’re trying to make informed decisions and we’re using it to learn about our audience, but I worry that there is, there are some places that are just very data obsessed.
Actually, the, keynote at state of search in Dallas recently, Carolyn, Shelby gave the first days keynote, and she talked a lot about this, about how data obsessed, I don’t know if you’ve, I guess PR maybe didn’t have the same obsession, but SEO definitely did and marketing definitely did. Of if we cannot measure It, it lost its value. And she is optimistic that it’s gonna swing the other way. And I am [00:20:00] too. I hope, because if not, we’re screwed just, and by we, companies too. Yeah. We start thinking about things a little more holistically and a little more like. Just caring about the people we’re trying to help.
Michelle: Yeah. I just don’t think people take like the big picture long view. A lot of times they’re just interested and it happens with PR two, they just wanna get the product announced. They just wanna get in this publication, they just wanna get this many, mentions or, and I’m like, yeah, but what about your overall like brand reputation and it’s gonna be important for you to build trust with your audiences.
You need to be out there doing things. It’s not just about, your next product announcement. It’s about, there are other things here that matter. so that I, that’s the kind of client I wanna work with Is clients that understand that. And if we aren’t on the same page, it’s probably not gonna go very well and it’s probably not really gonna be a good fit.
[00:21:00] I definitely have gotten more, Honest, even with myself about it, it’s it’s, it looked good or it sounding good. But then when I talk to them, if they really are asking for things that I in good faith cannot, promise I’m not. Yeah. I’m not, I it’s not gonna work and they’re gonna be unhappy potentially.
and I’m gonna be miserable. So that’s, it’s not good.
Amanda: Yeah. It’s not worth it to, because you’re right. I would be miserable too if it’s really difficult to know you’re doing great work and to have it just brushed under the rug because it Yeah. Doesn’t meet like some kind of arbitrary metric criteria or something, Yeah. It’s, it’s, for me, it can be demoralizing, yeah. Yeah. You gotta protect yourself in that way, but, and that’s why I really do hope that little by little, I’m like, let’s make the most use of this LLM craze and yeah. Be like, yeah, visibility does matter. Let’s talk about what are the signals, [00:22:00] it makes sense that LLMs are looking at.
Third party ways to verify, if you know what you’re talking about. that’s what people do. I, we search for something, even if we start with Google, I’ll crosscheck it on Reddit or vice versa. And then I’ll ask my friends and then I’ll, like search has always been more complicated and it’s just getting even more complex and we just need to think about it that way.
And PR plays such a critical role in building that brand reputation and being a discovery access point for brands.
And it just needs to be recognized as more than just as the link.
Michelle: we got off on a tangent there, but that’s, hopefully people will, get something out of that.
I’m glad to know that, ’cause I really respect your opinion, so it’s good to know that I’m not like, just. seeing this stuff [00:23:00] and it, that you actually are seeing it too,
Amanda: yeah, absolutely.
Michelle: let’s go back, because I got me
Amanda: back on track. Michelle. what are we
Michelle: That’s, oh, it’s all good. All right, so let’s just define brand authority. Even when I was getting ready for this, I was looking up definitions because I’m like, how do people define this? Because I think people misuse terms a lot, or maybe they just misunderstand what it is, or, maybe people have just different, ideas about what it is.
So what is your definition?
Amanda: Yeah. I had the same experience because I was throwing that phrase around and realizing that nobody had really defined it or, there wasn’t a, an agreed upon definition. I have a, it feels like a dry definition, but it’s what I like fundamentally what I think it is, and I think it’s.
Demonstrated and perceived expertise. Okay. By your target [00:24:00] audience. And there’s a reason why I say demonstrated and perceived right by your audience in your target, subject matter and beyond. So demonstrated a perceived because like you have to put in the efforts to demonstrate that, but it also needs to be received in the way that you intended by your audience.
And I think that this is the connection of okay, let’s not just put stuff out there and hope that it’s working. It’s is it actually resonating with the people who we’re trying to reach? That I think is key. But yeah, it’s showing that you understand your field and in a lot of cases, even going a little bit beyond that, not beyond your field, but beyond your offering, your.
Your product or your service offering that you care about the industry and you care about your audience as well. So it, it does get confusing. People will mix it up with, now Moz has a brand authority metric, for example.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: That’s dealing specifically with [00:25:00] search. And then people think about domain authority, which is also just like a very SEO specific thing.
But for brand authority, we’re talking much more zoomed out. It’s more of a brand side concept of like literally how is your target audience thinking about you Like that? That’s the simplest
Michelle: way. Okay. How is your target audience thinking about you? Yeah.
Amanda: Because visibility is what the step toward authority people have to know about you first.
but they still, authority is getting to, how are they thinking about you if they see you? Is that visibility? Changing the way that they perceive your brand as a result.
Michelle: Yeah.
Sorry.
Amanda: No, you’re good.
Michelle: The writer in me supposed to [00:26:00] take notes and pull out little nuggets. the next, and we’ve talked, what you’ve said already covers this, but let’s go there. How does brand authority fit into PR and comms and what we are doing? how do you view that?
Amanda: Yeah. PR is a core way of continuing that conversation outside of just the core offerings, right? Again, that word conversation because somebody can sit there and talk about themselves. A brand can sit there and just say everything at wants, right? Which is great. You gotta start there. But unless anybody else is validating that those things are true, then it’s not necessarily gonna get you very far.
think about even like the most authoritative sites have had validation eventually because there somebody’s recognizing, oh, this is great [00:27:00] content, or oh, this is a great service. So whether it’s, a review, management strategy, whether it’s getting mentions appearing on relevant podcasts and talking about these things you’re talking about on your site, whether it’s getting those media mentions and industry specific publications, people need the third party validation.
They constantly search for that no matter what they’re looking for. Yeah. So PR is a critical piece of the authority puzzle, and some people will get it naturally, but. Most of the time, especially if you’re in a competitive industry, your competitors are out there hustling for more recognition than you, right?
So it’s combining the PR side of things with the value add. what are you. Giving. That is PR worthy anyway. if, I’m sure you’ve, I’m sure you’ve run into this quite a bit where somebody wants to talk about something and it’s that’s interesting to you, [00:28:00] but maybe not to a wider audience.
so there’s this yeah. what is the value that you’re bringing that can be then utilized by a TR team.
Michelle: yeah. And there are certain things that are like interesting or are, add to your authority, your credibility, but they may not be pr worthy, news items or whatever.
Like maybe you’ve won an award or certification or something like that in your space. that’s not necessarily something like, you could certainly write a press release and put it on your site and share it on social media, but reporters o other media outlets are not necessarily going to wanna write about that.
So that’s not always, that’s just one example. But, but yeah, I think a lot of times, companies are like, wow, look at, look what we want or look what we got or look what we did. and you unfortunately you have to burst their bubble a little bit and be like,
Amanda: Yeah, but you’re right.
Like it is still an authority signal. It’s just not necessarily one that has to [00:29:00] go to the PR side of the strategy, but put that on your site for sure. Because when they’re scrolling around and they’re looking to be Like, cool, this sounds good, but are they legit? Cool? This sounds good, but has it worked before?
Like those always help put people at ease, which is basically what you’re trying to do. I feel like marketing is about friction. You’re trying to reduce the friction and as much as you can be like, no, it’s good. Don’t worry. It’s great. People, we work with people like we’re a real company. we care the better.
Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. And I, it takes a lot of. Signals. the more you can get, the more trust you can build, the better it is. Yeah. I never looked down on those things when clients say, oh, here’s this thing, can, what can we do with it? I’d be more like, here’s what we could do, but let’s definitely not.
Yeah.
Amanda: Yeah. But
Michelle: you
Amanda: would say today does not care?
Michelle: No. like we can always [00:30:00] pitch it, but I can’t promise that anyone’s gonna care unless sometimes trade publications. But anyway, that’s
so why do you think if it’s this important, because I think we are in an agreement that it’s vitally important, brand authority. Why do companies tend to overlook it? Or is it because they don’t understand it or.
Amanda: I think honestly it’s a lot of that metric ran I went on. I think that it be, it being so difficult to measure means that you can’t really track it in a way that makes everybody feel like, yes, I impacted revenue.
And so people will tend toward the things that are easier to track. but that’s why I mentioned that article about the editors being like, we didn’t have to reckon with it until now that our traffic has plummeted. [00:31:00] And people are taking a step back and thinking, okay, we have put this off because we’re getting away with using other tactics to get the traffic.
But now that it’s gone Now we realize, oh, we probably should have figured out a different route to connect to our audience. I do think I’m hopeful that companies will start to see even if this is d more difficult to measure and using LLMs as that proxy of okay, maybe if we start doing prompt tracking and we start to see how we’re appearing LLMs, like that’s the first way, one of the ways that people are starting to measure authority really outside of ranking and Google, but it takes away it just being about domain authority and it’s very more specifically about your brand’s authority.
So I think that was the biggest problem. if I were to guess, and I think we’re moving closer to a world in which it is easier to measure and I have like my [00:32:00] own whole checklist of things of all the majority signals, which I
can,
Michelle: That’s our next question.
How to conduct a brand authority mini audit
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. Because there is no kind of tool.
Yeah. so one of what have I just presented on at state of search was like my very mini audit that I think everybody should do. ’cause it takes five minutes. Okay. And it’s four things you can check. Okay. And yeah, I’ll just go through them. I think that’s probably easiest. Okay. So the first thing is going to Reddit answers, which if people listening have not checked this out, it’s like a relatively new, it’s the AI function on Reddit.
It’s in beta still, I think. Okay. And it released earlier this year, but it is essentially searching all of Reddit for answers your questions. So it’s just like a little version of Shachi pt. However, go in there and search what is the reputation for. And your brand [00:33:00] and Reddit will compile instead of you manually.
I don’t know if you’re like me, I would be in Reddit looking at, a company I’m working with and seeing what everybody had to say. That’s still valuable, but this is a way in literally five seconds to get like a complete snapshot of how you’re being perceived. Then do that for your competitors as well.
okay. The reason we do this is because it’s serving as a proxy for natural, authentic conversations about how people are talking about your brand. There are very few places on the internet that people trust anymore. people don’t trust, and this is generalizing, but a lot more people don’t trust Google results because of all the affiliates that we’re ranking.
They don’t trust SEOs. You see these articles coming out, whatever the truth is about any of that or how we all feel, that is a perception issue. influencers don’t have as much trust as they used to. There’s just a lot of trust issues and understandably [00:34:00] People are really relying on places like Reddit before they get it gets red, ruined by marketers.
Hopefully, that doesn’t happen immediately, but,
Michelle: yeah, that’s what I worry about when I see people. ’cause having dabbled in that I have not cracked the code there, I’ll be honest. just looking at it, I feel like you have to be really careful and it’s, I won’t say it’s scary, but it’s intimidating.
I think,
Amanda: it is, intimidating and I think that’s, there is no other place that I’m aware of that is as critical of marketing as Reddit is, and I think that’s what’s gonna keep it authentic for a little longer than the other kind of places that fell fast to just being inundated with sales stuff, but, they appreciate authenticity more than anything else. So the brands that do well are the ones who are just like, yeah, I work for that brand and I’m here to just troubleshoot with You it’s not like a salesy thing. But,
Michelle: can I ask [00:35:00] you a question though? Yeah. About Reddit, because I feel like, and I forget who was talking about this, but obviously like Google was starting to favor Reddit in the search results, right?
Yep. So does that make it less trustworthy or what, what do you think about that?
Amanda: I think that was Google’s way of being like, oh, we recognize that. that was, they were seeing that searches were. including the word Reddit in them. People were specifically saying, best restaurants, Reddit in Google.
And so Google was recognizing they’re not satisfied with our results. They’re literally using Google to get to Reddit. So they just started serving those results.
To at least, have a better user experience. But it was a very telling, turning point in SEO because people were like, they don’t like what they’re getting in [00:36:00] Google because they don’t trust what they’re getting in Google.
They specifically want Reddit because they think those are just everyday people. Saying what they think. And that has gotten lost in the, affiliate sites ranking, but, not all of them. They’re good affiliate sites, but you know what I’m saying. But
Michelle: Forbes.
Amanda: the ones that have gone off the rails and talked about anything and everything like that, that waned people’s trust. so yeah, I think that Google was just okay. And again, I have no idea, but there, if it was me, I’d be like, we need to figure that out, but in the meantime, let’s Reddit answers because that seems to be what people want.
Michelle: okay, that’s curious. That’s
Amanda: why it’s important. But not only is this important to see how people on Reddit are talking about you, but yes, Reddit is also feeding into search and it’s feeding into LLM answers in a big way. So this is a huge source of you gotta understand how you’re being talked about there.
’cause not [00:37:00] only is it happening there, it is affecting two of the major search platforms and methods of search. So definitely do that. If you have, if somebody’s a marketer or a PR person’s listening to this, again, five seconds and you’ll have a breakdown of how people are talking about a brand. Second mini test is going into your LLM of choice.
I use chat, GPT, and just doing the old, Hey, give me the top 10 brands in your industry. and seeing if you appear on the top 10. So I also have a scoring set up for each of these. So like I have a different score if you’re a number one versus number three versus number seven versus not on there at all.
Because I use it to compare to, to compe, equal size competitors, but just seeing if you’re there, if you’re not there, it’s [00:38:00] fun to ask why not? Oh, and the example I did in this presentation was for, lattice, L-A-T-T-I-C-E. And it was like a, they’re like an HR company, management platform.
But they were like, I asked Chad GBT, why didn’t you include Lattice in your top 10? And they said, they, it said, it’s only started offering its HR side of the platform earlier this year. And all the other ones have been around longer. And to me that was very interesting ’cause it was acknowledging, yes, this does do it, but it’s not as established as the others.
Which if I worked at marketing there, I’d be like, we need those third party signals stat to prove that this part of our offering is legit and worth including on a top 10 list. in some cases some of these brands are gonna be like, we know we’re one, like we’re established, we don’t need to do this.
But for a [00:39:00] lot of them seeing and then. Yeah. the complicated thing about LLMs is that their answers are always gonna be different because everyone’s asking things slightly differently.
Michelle: Yes. Yep.
Amanda: So it’s not a perfect test. And what you can do if you have more time is do alternate prompts getting into slightly different maybe parts of your offering.
Maybe locations. And seeing how the answers differ. again, these are like the top level entry points to this kind of testing to see how you’re appearing. But there’s, if you see that there’s an opportunity, if you’re not number one or two, then sitting there and running through these other prompts, we’ll give you an idea of, or, and literally just asking in response, why did she put this as number one?
Why did she put this as number two? You can start to see where are you not having those third party signals that you need? You
Michelle: can also see Rabbit hole with it.
Amanda: Yeah. Oh, for sure. Because then you’re also, you get the whole list of sources [00:40:00] that you use to come up with that list. Yes.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: And so from a PR or SEO or content perspective, you’re like, oh, we’re not mentioned on that list.
We’re not talked about on that site. and suddenly you have a list of places where you need to be trying to get into, to, to compete on that side. So that test is a proxy for third party authority. but I don’t know, does that, what do you think about that? And do you have a different way of like, when somebody’s oh, we’re not ranking or appearing the way we want to, what do you tend to look at?
Michelle: for me it’s often trade pubs because it’s B two. I work a lot with B2B companies, and so that’s where their, their buyers are going to find, recommendations and things. And that’s what I like about, When they go, when they ask an LLM versus ask, searching in Google, although I know people are gonna, there’s so many articles, oh, LLM [00:41:00] searches this little tiny bit.
And they go, yes, okay. But it’s growing. And as Andy Crestodina said, one, when they ask an LLM, they’re actually like looking for a recommendation. They’re not, they’re at a different point maybe in their research or they’re, getting different answers anyway. So who should we hire for X or who should we buy from for y they’re actually gonna be looking at the companies as those are qualified and we’re now going into their, the site or their blog or whatever.
Looking at it from that perspective, it’s been recommended. And, so that’s why I feel like it’s al I, again, I know people are gonna, a lot of people poo ppo, the LLM based search, but I really, I, I I kinda like it, like I think it’s,
Amanda: it is growing, it is certainly growing.
Like you’re right, I’ve seen the same things. Like technically the percentage is low and
That makes sense though, because [00:42:00] just this year, how much it has grown from January to now. even on a personal anecdotal level, I was not using it the way I did. Yes. The way I’m using it now, I was not using it six months ago.
Michelle: Yes. And I’ve had potential clients c tell me that they found me using Chad GPT, and they ask a bunch of questions and they narrowed it down and that, so to me that’s meaningful. like I, again, that is a personal anecdote, but that wasn’t happening before. And then if you look at your site, metrics, you could see the analytics where the traffic’s coming from and it’s just better qualified, I think by the time it gets there.
So even if it’s a low percentage, it might be a higher conversion rate. I feel like that’s important.
Amanda: Yeah. And no, I totally agree, and I think, I don’t think you’re anybody’s wasting their time by trying to optimize their third party signals that LLMs are using because they’re still third party authority signals.
that’s why they’re being [00:43:00] used.
Michelle: So
Amanda: being on those top 10 lists, that’s what shows up in search. If somebody’s top whatever software they’re getting, G two, they’re getting, whatever, they’re getting those lists. So it has always mattered if you were there now, this is just another mechanism in which another source is pulling these different signals in to decide your reputation, really.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: So that’s why I had that test on there. The last one you’re gonna, or the third one you’re gonna hate, this one is backlinks, but also mentions, this was to an SEO crowd. Actually, what is your favorite tool for tracking mentions?
Tools for tracking brand mentions
Michelle: as far as like Talk Walker or something like that? You mean? Or
Amanda: yeah, it just, like anything. ’cause like basically I was literally, as I was putting this together, it’s I actually don’t wanna say back links, but I’m [00:44:00] in
CO tools more than you Yeah. I don’t have the access to VR tool, so I’m like, what is the best way for a company to see every time it is mentioned? what’s
Michelle: the most accurate tool? I use Pause sometimes, Okay. And then, yeah, but I do, I, of course I have Google alerts set up, but I also have talk w alerts set up and then I can see what’s going on and I go in and do my own search.
I’m pretty like, I wanna think of a different word to use, but I’m pretty like, about trying to make sure I find every single. Potential dimension. You know what
Amanda: I was curious about? I was like, how manual does it need to be still? Because I’ve heard that, not every tool is perfect at capturing all the different
Michelle: dimensions.
Amanda: No,
Michelle: that’s why you need different ones. And then I, some other tools will, media databases will have a tool that will do it. But again, it’s very, I don’t feel like there’s one good way to do it. And also the timing. Like sometimes I wanna know or need to know as soon as something comes out.
’cause there was an article this [00:45:00] week on one of my clients and I was like waiting for it, watch for, and it wasn’t coming up in my, alerts. Like I get an email with an alert, but it wasn’t there. So then I went out and just searched and it was there and it had been just been published, but it like legs a little bit, which makes me look like if I send it three days a you know, the client’s
Amanda: yeah.
Michelle: it’s probably not the end of the world, however, you want it, you wanna know like right now,
Amanda: Oh, for sure. Yeah. That’s interesting that I wanted to ask you that because. I had no idea. I was like, I don’t know if there’s a tool that, so whatever method anybody uses to be like, that’s why I was like backlinks.
’cause I know that I could, you wanna pull the last 30 days for this test? It’s basically like comparing the number of mentions you’ve gotten in the last 30 days versus your competitors. Okay. And that’s about recency. So if we’re talking about LLMs, again, recency is important for them, but it’s also important for authority building overall.
Some brands have coasted on a like really strong [00:46:00] authority they built years ago, right? But it’s not really a best practice to coast and then hope that it lasts. You should continue to participate and provide value. And so this is a way of being like right now. Are you as relevant and authoritative as the others in your,
Michelle: it’s like the magic mirror
Amanda: who’s the most relevant and authoritative of all.
Yeah.
Michelle: And I’m glad you said this because I have seen things about this and also wondered. Okay, so yeah, you should never like totally just go quiet and quit. However, it, how, if you haven’t, say you, you had a lot, you got a lot of attention in the media for something you announced or a story that broke or whatever, and it’s been a few years.
Is that, does that mean you might not be, you might not come up as readily as your competitor that’s been in the news more?
Amanda: yeah. It’s not an [00:47:00] easy question. More
Michelle: recently,
Amanda: it’s not an easy question to answer. Okay. And I think, ’cause it’s a whole. Not even algorithm, but it’s a whole kind of calculation of was it so authoritative that it beats out anything your competitors have gotten?
If so, it might last a little longer, But I still think There are some, early studies for LLM specifically that they do favor recency. which again, I, intuitively I guess that makes sense. I wanna see in the same way you look at a social profile and if you’re like, or a blog and you’re like, they haven’t posted in six months, that’s weird.
that’s the first kind of thought you have. It’s another friction point of, it doesn’t have to be that you’re hitting it out of the park every time. But people wanna say that you’re still around, you’re still doing the thing you’re known for, you’re still participating, you’re still investing in this, I think that is important.
And even SEOs saw that on the [00:48:00] backlink side of the media mentioned side. They were like, yeah, it’s great to get something. You would peak though, and then you would dip and then plateau unless you continued to do that work pretty consistently. It was not enough to sustain you for, years and years.
Yeah. There is a, I don’t know, there’s a continuous, how do you see that from the PR side? Like how, often, how are you creating that momentum? Maybe?
Michelle: Yes. That’s exactly the word that I use because sometimes, if you’re out there, obviously people want to announce their products and services, solutions and things, but beyond that, what do you have thought leadership, customer stories.
what do you have? What do you got? What can we work with? Where’s the meat? That we can keep the momentum going because we can’t just, announce and sit for six months and then you know, that’s not really good. And that, to me, some of this is common sense and has always been, that’s the thing about stuffing [00:49:00] your blog post full of keywords.
It never made sense to me. I was like, this is like, how can this be the right thing to do? It should be valuable. And again, with this being like dormant, just slitting your account and don’t post anything for six months on social media, that’s just common sense to me. Like that, that would mean you’re not, engaged or active or there’s nothing, you don’t have anything newsworthy to talk about if you haven’t posted in that long.
It’s just common sense, a lot of it. And maybe, that’s on the decline as well. So I
Amanda: listen, that’s a whole other conversation, Michelle.
Michelle: But some of this really, this to me, I’m just thrilled that we’re coming back to that way of looking at it. ’cause I’m just a practical common sense. I don’t necessarily, that’s why SEO was always hard for me to really grasp. It’s like, why, okay, I know this is important, but why?
Like, how, like [00:50:00] it just always I, it was never, it never really made good common sense to me. that you could just stuff with keywords and get the top spot on Google and every, like I, I don’t know.
Amanda: I know I always, I never loved the black hat side of SEO and it was, it just felt, yeah, just scammy.
’cause it was, and fundamentally like good SEOs. The common sense part is, yeah, you need to create good stuff. That is valuable to readers and that the machines understand. That was the part, that was the technical side of SEO, because you could still be creating great stuff, but if your site structure was terrible and your internal linking was bad, then the algorithm wasn’t understanding your topical authority and then you weren’t gonna be showing up, which was, you’re just missing your entire search audience.
good SEOs understand that the content, they understand that the content [00:51:00] has to be good, valuable, have what, what they say now is information gain, meaning something new, not just regurgitating what everybody else is saying,
Michelle: right?
Amanda: That search engines actually reward that. But there were again, a lot of people who fell into the oh, if it’s moving the needle, even if it’s the scammy, that’s fine.
And that was very shortsighted. Those people were the ones who would get penalized. But some people made a quick buck, moved on whatever. But that’s, that was never really and that’s why the industry got a bad rap because of folks like that,
Michelle: right?
Amanda: The people who take, you know their profession seriously.
They’re not doing, they’re doing the side of no, we actually want to create things that is rank worthy. We want to rank because it’s actually the best and we need to help the Google algorithm figure out what this page is and how it relates to the rest of our site, and what that means about our brand and that sort of thing.
But I [00:52:00] hear you. It was, I got into this industry at one of the scariest parts right before, penguin and Pan dial algorithm updates came out and people were just. Keyword, stuffing the crap out of everything, and then suddenly they’re like, oh, no, we can’t do that anymore. We need to hire writers. So that was my first job, was like a panic hire at college.
Michelle: And now look, people are using AI and that there’s gonna be a backlash on that. I think we’re already seeing some of that. You do need human writers, and I don’t know,
Amanda: like this
Michelle: weird
Amanda: trend repeating,
Michelle: don’t take shortcuts. I don’t know. I just, yeah, I used to get, a brief that would have these, like 20 keywords and a 700 word blog post.
I’m like, oh, not a really writing. Then you’re just literally just, it just, I don’t know. It, I always felt like, yeah, the audience should want to read it and it should, give them something that, they didn’t have or need or wanted to, there should be [00:53:00] value there. So anyway, it just, I
Amanda: totally
Michelle: made sense.
Amanda: It totally, I totally agree. It was very frustrating as a writer, as a. A pro. Like every stage I was in the industry, I was like, I don’t want to. sometimes you would get a directive and just be like, really that’s what we’re doing. Okay, sure. But, I don’t see this working long term.
And that was, that’s where a lot of people are. if it’s worked until now, for then the last year for a lot of people it stopped working. And so there’s an appetite to be like, how do we change our, tech and do this in a way that’s more sustainable? fingers crossed.
Michelle: Thank goodness.
What’s the fourth thing?
Amanda: So the fourth one is, and this one. I use social media for this one. The purpose of this one is to try to figure out if people find your content valuable. So if you’re a company that relies on social, this one was the most simple of them all to me, which is just how [00:54:00] many followers do you have or subscribers do you have compared to your competitors?
Email would be great for this. I just don’t have the competitor information. So you can use it as a self check. open rates, click through rates. You’re basically trying to see are people finding your content good enough that they are regularly exposing themselves to it? They’re asking to receive it, right?
But, ’cause that’s a big ask these days. People’s attention is all over the place. So if they’re subscribed to you, if they’re opening all of your emails, if they are following and engaging with your social content, whatever you think is the best fit for your co, your company. Tracking that. And if you have the comparisons, like on social, you can see.
How your competitors are faring and asking yourself like, what is this saying about what we’re putting on this platform? Are we talking to the right people? Is this actually interesting and informative and entertaining? Or are we just doing this as like a distribution play and not really putting [00:55:00] enough thought into how it needs to be differentiated for this platform.
But the purpose of this mini test is, are people finding our content valuable? So all four of those combined, right? It’s okay, is the content good? Are people talking about us recently? Are the third party signals there? those are the things we’re trying to piece together because they are the big picture of authority.
And hopefully if you run these And pick three or four competitors, you can see where like very quickly, where your biggest gap might be. To get more into a full strategy. This is what I do with clients. I’ll go through all of them more in depth, but Right. You could very quickly be like, oh, it’s the third party signals.
Like you might be like, our site is amazing, we have great messaging. Our social’s killing it, but nobody else outside of our own channels is talking about us. That’s a problem.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: Or you are getting some of those mentions ’cause you have a great product, but your site is confusing [00:56:00] and you’re like, your mission makes no sense.
like you’re trying to triage where the authority is lacking. If people haven’t mentioned you in the last month, maybe you haven’t done anything recently, you haven’t prioritized it. or something that, a campaign you did six months ago that had a lot of traction is starting to fall off.
You’re trying to find that, that, that quick gap and hopefully, again, I assign scores to all of this, out of a total of a hundred. So if you’re in a situation where you need buy-in from leadership. Show them the score comparisons with your competitors, and suddenly people get very interested in the FOMO of it all, of oh, they’re killing it at this.
yeah, let’s invest some money in that. So some of those things have worked for our ages. FOMO has always been effective.
Michelle: and sometimes it’s it’s like me, ah, like they’re too focused on it. [00:57:00]
Amanda: oh, I know
Michelle: so and so showed up here. Why aren’t we there?
it’s
Amanda: and so you gotta use this to your advantage when you can Yeah.
Michelle: To go about how, we might, get there, but, anyway. Yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s, it makes a lot of sense and I think these are easy steps. I love the practicality. Anybody could do this on their own, or get more, in depth help if they needed it.
Amanda: if someone listening does this, let me know. ’cause I’m curious, what people get from it and if they have other ideas about these mini audits. because I love this stuff. I love diving into all the different signals and seeing what matter, because it’s gonna depend on industry too, right?
Like you were saying in B2B, it’s gonna be different than what B2C folks are worried about. And the numbers are gonna be different and
it can get so granular and personalized in [00:58:00] interesting ways, but hopefully it’s a good starting point for people who are like, oh my God, what am I supposed to do right now?
Hopefully this is like a good first step.
Michelle: Yeah. I think that’s always the thing. It’s like people hear something and they’re like, oh no, how do I actually do it? Because it sounds like a good idea, but yeah. The practicality of doing it. So before we go though, I did have a question that somebody posted on LinkedIn.
Before that we started today. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna put it up here so we can a, we can answer this question. So from Dane f Fredrickson, he says, I’m curious how you factor in own video thought leadership into trust building versus earned PR exposure. What do you think about that?
Amanda: I love that question. And if you think about it from like the piece, the classic piso model, right? They’re all parts of the puzzle. I don’t think either one of these replaces the other. I think that anything owned helps you with earned, and you tell me, if you agree, but [00:59:00] the more that you’re putting.
Valuable content out there, the easier it tends to be to get third party folks to, reference you if they already trust the stuff you’re creating. If you’ve done nothing and then you’re like, yeah, talk about me. And they’re like, based on what, you gotta give us a little something. you can build your own.
I think we alluded to this at the very beginning of this, this chat where You can be sitting there, you can build your own authority from nothing. You just sit there and crank out amazing content for years and then get all those third party signals. so owned certainly matters. It does not replace earned because you still, even if it’s earned is like all kinds of stuff.
The comments on your videos right. Is technically an earned signal. Yep. All of those things help validate the owned side and the more that you’re able to validate that, it just helps you grow faster, if anything.
Michelle: Yeah.
Amanda: So I look at them as complimentary.
Michelle: Yeah. [01:00:00] Yeah. I love the peso model because, I, that in my head when I’m talking about, pr I have that in, when I talk to clients, I try to explain it from that perspective too, even if they don’t know what it is sometimes.
And when I give talks, I put a picture of it up because Gini Dietrich is very generous about letting us do that with proper credit. hat off to her and of course she’s, I’ve had her as a guest as well. She’s great. Everything she does, yeah. But she and I have talked about it and how you really need to start with owned, for pr ’cause you have to have the owned content to then, really feed, fuel your earned media, efforts.
And then to me, the shared the social that would be next. And then if you wanted to do paid on top of that, all the better, but it, I think you have to start with own. ’cause you don’t have, if you don’t have anything there. and they, even if you get yourself mentioned in an article, they go to your site.
You go to your blog, there’s nothing [01:01:00] there. You go to your socials, you’re not,
Amanda: yeah.
Michelle: Those are, they’re, they are all signals and they, they have to be all working together.
Amanda: yeah, absolutely. I think owned in so many ways, like even outside of video, like your site has to look authoritative. Like it has to, and that can go down to like technical things.
can people find what they need on your site? Does the load fast? there’s so many things that can make somebody be like, and just leave. And it’s much easier to get any of the third party stuff if you are coming across as an authority in the first place. Yeah. And not making them question whether they wanna mention you or not.
Michelle: I think site is a huge thing for pr people too, because it’s like, yeah, I sometimes I will work with manufacturing companies for example, and they are often a little behind maybe in updating their site, but we really wanna get that done first because as soon as a reporter we get their attention, they’re gonna go and look.
So I feel like it, yeah, there’s a lot of things that, that go [01:02:00] into it. And it’s not like any one,
Amanda: Yeah, for sure. It’s a lot. Maybe that’s the only reason people don’t do it is ’cause it’s, it, it is like a, an existential question in some ways. Who are we as a company and what, how are we different?
And who are we trying to, it’s but those are the most important questions.
Michelle: yeah,
Amanda: it’s always good to go back to this, after a time.
Wrapping up brand authority and PR with Amanda Milligan
Michelle: Is there anything else? I know we’re at our hour here, so I don’t wanna keep you, but we could probably talk all day. But is there anything else that you wanna leave us with before we wrap up?
Amanda: No, if this resonates with you obviously follow Michelle. She is amazing. Has talk about authority. I think of Michelle is one of the most authoritative PR folks that there are, that there is. follow her. I’m, like I said, I’m trying to figure out something on, on an [01:03:00] ongoing basis to connect marketers who feel this way.
So if you feel this way. Again, sign up for the newsletter. I’m also chronically on LinkedIn. I have a very love hey relationship with that platform. but add me there. I’m happy to chat more there. But thank you so much for having me, Michelle. And yeah, I obviously can talk forever, it’s good to have an hour cap so I don’t just, spend my entire day going on and on,
Michelle: but it’s so interesting, right?
I find it so fascinating. So I really thank you for spending time with me today and, yeah. thanks everybody. I’ll be back soon with details about the next, episode, which will be coming up in a couple weeks. So thanks so much.
Amanda: Thank you.
Michelle: Bye.
About the host: Michelle Garrett is a B2B PR consultant, media relations consultant, and author of B2B PR That Gets Results, an Amazon Best Seller. She helps companies create content, earn media coverage, and position themselves as thought leaders in their industry. Michelle’s articles have been featured by Entrepreneur, Content Marketing Institute, Muck Rack, and Ragan’s PR Daily, among others. She’s a frequent speaker on public relations and content. Michelle has been repeatedly ranked among the top ten most influential PR professionals.
Learn more about Michelle’s freelance PR consulting services here. Book a no-obligation call to talk about your needs here. Buy Michelle’s book here.
